Actual alternative motor possibilities?

I am honestly wondering about the ecotec conversion. There are (were) lots of pictures but it's hard to tell exactly how much modification to the chassis is needed. Some people want more access and I get that. Me personally, I'd rather drop the engine than try to do major work with the engine in the car. This for me is not a daily driver.

I think cost is always a factor. Sure, some people have more they can put into a swap and some have to be more frugal but there is usually a point where someone has to say "that is all I'm going to spend on this."
 
Well doesn't my wife go and throw in the Hyabusa engine... Hmmmmmmm.....


Not one Suzuki Swift in all Ontario for sale. I wonder if there are any south of the border in a reasonable trailer distance. I kinda like the idea of the Swift engine.

I am surprised Mazda and Nissan have not been mentioned. The Mazda 2 does seem a bit anemic but is the Mazda 3 engine too big? I had a Mazda 3GT and I never had an issue with it, now I wish I had of taken a better look at the engine.
 
Well doesn't my wife go and throw in the Hyabusa engine... Hmmmmmmm.....


Not one Suzuki Swift in all Ontario for sale. I wonder if there are any south of the border in a reasonable trailer distance. I kinda like the idea of the Swift engine.

I am surprised Mazda and Nissan have not been mentioned. The Mazda 2 does seem a bit anemic but is the Mazda 3 engine too big? I had a Mazda 3GT and I never had an issue with it, now I wish I had of taken a better look at the engine.
Of course it depends on the year and the car, but generally if you are referring to a Mazda 3 with the 2.3L L-series engine, that's shared with Ford and has a wide variety of displacements.
 
The one I had was a 2.3, well I had an 06 and an 08, but I have no idea if either would fit.
 
throw in the Hyabusa engine
We've thrown this around a few times. There have been a couple track only X's with it. And there are Busa's in other small cars. The biggest drawbacks are a lack of torque, a lack of reverse, and a lack of a differential. The reverse and differential issues can be resolved, at a cost. But the torque shortage is more difficult. Adding a turbo would help, but it just keeps getting more complicated, more expensive, and less reliable.

Didn't someone say something about Mazdas earlier? I think it would have to be a small displacement one to fit the X's engine bay. Same for a lot of the options though. Even the little Honda's are pushing the limits of available space. If you are willing to do some heavy modifications then more choices become possible. I think for most drivetrains you would end up doing something like this:
s-l1600 (1).jpg
X19 seen in Monterey.jpg
 
I am not opposed to bracing and have tossed around the idea of a cage to some degree. My wife is real paranoid of being in such a small car.

I see a 1995 Accord in decent looking shape for sale. I have been toying with older engines just to stay away from the ever increasing amount of electronics. Would this be too old? Accords seem to be more readily available than any DOHC Civic. I have not tossed out the possibility of any other engines, I try not to set plans. I like to keep options open as much as possible, but a 90s car just makes me pause.


That Abarth!
 
Unfortunately it was quite a while ago that I looked into the various Honda options, so I really do not recall which ones were good candidates. However it seemed many of the ones with the B-series engines were older (relatively speaking), so that may be about the right era. For the very reason you mentioned, newer stuff was not as favorable due to extra requirements with electronics and controls. There are some Honda guys on this forum that can help more. Also I think some of the references linked earlier has some of that info.
 
I watched a video last week, of a guy who put a Honda B motor in his X. IIRC, he said by rotating the engine slightly, he was able to fit it in the engine bay with NO cutting of any of the frame rails or having to modify any of the interior bay panels. Of course, he had to custom make and install the motor mounts. It was a snug fit, but the tightest clearance shown was still about the width of your index finger. In fact, he video'd himself sticking his finger in the gap to show the width. The installation was complete and the car was running and driving. The owner claimed he had no issues with any interference or driveability. Unfortunately, I was pulled away and got involved in something for work, and mistakenly closed the page. This is one of those times when my longtime policy of "automatically clearing my browsing history on exit" has come back to bite me in the ass, as I've been racking my brain searching all of the various websites this "could" have been on. I was excited to share it in this thread, but alas I have succumbed to yet another brain fart. What I do remember is the guy spoke English (he sounded American) and "I think" the car was Red. Sorry...that's all I got, right now. Of course, if I run across again, it I'll share asap.
 
I mentioned Mazda three times, the B series (aka Miata, Mazda 323, Mercury Capri,Kia), the V6 which would definitely require serious surgery (but what a sound!) and the Mazda ZL-VE which is a bit smaller with an alloy block, VVT and a decent factory hp out of 1.5l

Once you start surgery on the engine bay more units become good candidates.

It does come back to what is a ‘good’ engine for an X. Finding something which offers power a bit up in the rev range and can at least rev to 7k I think is a critical part of making an X feel like an X

I really like the Suzuki 1300 as well, its light, small and can be modded reliably to make good power but like any small engine limited torque unless you turbo it (which apparently they are good for due to the stock forged internal parts)

The B swap seems like the best of the lot with the exception that it impinges on the rear trunk due to the intake manifold. If one could make/get a downdraft intake versus the FWD friendly OE manifold it could probably be done with no cutting of the general sheet metal of the car or the trunk. This seems to be my mental problem as I use the trunk of my car all the time.
 
I watched a video last week, of a guy who put a Honda B motor in his X. IIRC, he said by rotating the engine slightly, he was able to fit it in the engine bay with NO cutting of any of the frame rails or having to modify any of the interior bay panels. Of course, he had to custom make and install the motor mounts. It was a snug fit, but the tightest clearance shown was still about the width of your index finger. In fact, he video'd himself sticking his finger in the gap to show the width. The installation was complete and the car was running and driving. The owner claimed he had no issues with any interference or driveability. Unfortunately, I was pulled away and got involved in something for work, and mistakenly closed the page. This is one of those times when my longtime policy of "automatically clearing my browsing history on exit" has come back to bite me in the ass, as I've been racking my brain searching all of the various websites this "could" have been on. I was excited to share it in this thread, but alas I have succumbed to yet another brain fart. What I do remember is the guy spoke English (he sounded American) and "I think" the car was Red. Sorry...that's all I got, right now. Of course, if I run across again, it I'll share asap.
Please do share. I am very courious how he avoided not notching for the transmission. With out it, it would have the drivetrain either really really uneven or at least 2 inches lower. Which doesnt leave much ground clearance. The drivers side little notch i can see not needing if you are a good fabricator. The notch is needed because of using stock mounts. Cutting the small notch is way easier than fabricating a new mount IMO.

sounds interesting. And yes clearance is crazy tight.

On some other engines, some just dont fit width. Tried a dsm motor from a eclipse. Too wide. A dodge 2.2 (and variants) will fit. Done that as well but they are becoming more rare to find in decent shape. Would love to try a vw vr6. But havnt located one cheap enough to play with.

Odie
 
Yes, you did mention the 323 and the Miata... (I didn't realize the Capri was originally a Mazda) but you are the only one in my recollection. I am surprised with all the Mazda cars on the road that people have not made them fit. I know the rotary has been done but I believe that needs some serious chopping of the chassis.

I also don't really want to lose my trunk space. I suppose to lose a bit of it as long as I can box it back up would be doable. Same for the spare tire area, some nostalgia makes me want to carry the spare.

A VR6 in an x would be a pretty fast car but even with it's tight angled heads, would it still not be too wide?

I also am not comfortable with turbos. They seem to be another part taking up space in an already cramped compartment and I try to keep things simple as possible. I know they are way more reliable and don't necessarily over stress engines like they have in the past, I just like the simplicity of NA engines.
 
Mazda B series (aka Miata, Mazda 323, Mercury Capri,Kia), and the Mazda ZL-VE with an alloy block, VVT and a decent factory hp out of 1.5l
Although I'm not directly experienced with any Japanese powertrains, I've heard good things about a few. Some Mazdas being one. The B series Mazda you mention was of particular interest to early (Mk1) Fiesta owners as a direct bolt-in swap for a serious performance upgrade in a very light car (even lighter than the X). With that body being similar styling to a Mk1 Uno, I considered making a project of it. However it seemed the B series engines were not as easy to get as I would have imagined (very likely I wasn't knowledgeable enough about them to know what models to look for though). And this ZL-VE you speak of sounds quite interesting; alloy block and head would be one of the mandatory criteria on my list of possible swaps. Why go through all the effort and not use the lightest powertrain you can? And you say it is smaller plus VVT. What models was it used in? Are they readily available and affordable as complete donor cars?

Another Japanese powertrain you mention is Suzuki. If I'm not mistaken they were designed by Yamaha - something of the Japanese equivalent to Cosworth (both being designers of things like F1 engines)? Which might explain the low torque; engines from those designers tend to be high revving "top end" performers (more on that in a moment). Adding a turbo to anything is MUCH easier, more reliable, and affordable that it was in the past. I'm with "ricar" about not feeling comfortable with them...or at least I was. Recently I decided to take another look at the possibility of a turbocharged engine; it had been many years since I had and they did not impress me back then. But I was amazed at how much things have developed and improved with them. One of the biggest factors being the use of a aftermarket ECU to manage it, and MegaSquirt has provided a very affordable and doable option for that. So a small and lightweight turbo'ed Suzuki would be a good one to look closer into. But are there many of them available (I honestly don't know)?

Karl, two things you have mentioned a couple of times bring questions to me. One is the desire for a high revving engine. I'm not sure if that is something to do with wanting to mimic the nature of the SOHC or ?? But in my opinion high RPM screaming top-end engines are not at all street friendly (I'm only referring to non-track use). I'll take an engine with lots of torque over a top end HP one every time. I'd even consider a diesel for that very reason (but I simply won't touch any diesels, so that's definitely out for me). In fact one of the reasons I'd consider doing a powertrain swap into the X is to get away from the nature of the SOHC (no offense to all of our devotees).
The other item you've mentioned is the loss of trunk space. That one I completely understand. However according to what I've read, the amount of intrusion the Honda B intake causes is miniscule and only toward the top edge of half the bulkhead. Going back to a earlier post by Odie, "The rear trunk divider will have to be trimmed up to allow the intake to poke through. It can just be trimmed and the trunk will be 99.6% the same size as before." I have to ask, does that really break the deal for you (no sarcasm intended)? I think it could be done cleanly with a little custom metalwork over that small section to make it insignificant as far as trunk utilization is concerned. But I'm even more intrigued by this comment from Tom, "I watched a video last week, of a guy who put a Honda B motor in his X. IIRC, he said by rotating the engine slightly, he was able to fit it in the engine bay with NO cutting of any of the frame rails or having to modify any of the interior bay panels." Sounds like there may be the possibility of virtually no trunk intrusion? Might be worth a closer look.


A VR6 in an x would be a pretty fast car but even with it's tight angled heads, would it still not be too wide?
I believe there is no way to get a VR6 into the X's engine bay - even with significant cutting. They are rather large, and heavy. Honestly they aren't one of VW's more reliable engines either. I've considered the VW 4-cylinder engines as possible swaps into the X. I have a couple of built engines available - 1.6 and 1.8 liter 8-valve from the Mk1 and 2 VW's. They are about the smallest VW powerplant you can easily get in the US. And frankly even those are a bit large/wide (and heavy) to make good swaps. Which goes back to my earlier comment of wanting a all aluminum engine if I'm going to make the effort. That rather limits many of the affordable, easy to get options unfortunately.

Another possible swap choice that was discussed in a earlier thread is the Toyota (don't recall the specific model of it). I believe it was Steve Hoelscher that gave a lot of info about it? And there have been a couple installed into X's using the mid-engine trans from the MR2.
 

Jeff, if you are looking for about 150hp in a simple form (except for installation) get an Ecotec from the early to mid 2000s, remove the power steering pump and intake, replace the PS pump with an MSD distributor and the intake with a dual 40 DCOE manifold. Plug the injector ports.
You now have a DOHC 4-valve aluminum block and head engine with lots of available aftermarket internals---cams, rods, pistons, valvetrain.
Simple, except for the installation, but still doable.
 
get an Ecotec from the early to mid 2000s
I've heard they can make some serious power. Another member has referenced these engines as well, including his X build with it. Although I hate American cars, I'd consider any source if it was a good choice for the purpose. I know nothing about them, are there cars with the right version of this engine/trans that are readily available cheap to get as a donor?

For what it's worth, I'm not considering any X swaps but enjoying the conversation all the same.
 
I've heard they can make some serious power. Another member has referenced these engines as well, including his X build with it. Although I hate American cars, I'd consider any source if it was a good choice for the purpose. I know nothing about them, are there cars with the right version of this engine/trans that are readily available cheap to get as a donor?

For what it's worth, I'm not considering any X swaps but enjoying the conversation all the same.

It's the base engine in Cavaliers, Sunfires, etc up to, I believe, 2005. it came with automatics or manuals. Engines should be around for as little as $100 from a "Pick a Part" yard. We were given a running engine and auto trans from a 2003.
These were used in Fiats if it makes you feel any better...
 
I am honestly wondering about the ecotec conversion. There are (were) lots of pictures but it's hard to tell exactly how much modification to the chassis is needed. Some people want more access and I get that. Me personally, I'd rather drop the engine than try to do major work with the engine in the car. This for me is not a daily driver.

I think cost is always a factor. Sure, some people have more they can put into a swap and some have to be more frugal but there is usually a point where someone has to say "that is all I'm going to spend on this."


I will disagree. Once the car has been cut up and modified for the new engine, really there is no going backward, but forward only. That is the swap business. As for older engines, the platform it operated on is much simpler, but not current and that too is something that needs to be considered in this whole process.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
I am honestly wondering about the ecotec conversion. There are (were) lots of pictures but it's hard to tell exactly how much modification to the chassis is needed. Some people want more access and I get that. Me personally, I'd rather drop the engine than try to do major work with the engine in the car. This for me is not a daily driver.

I think cost is always a factor. Sure, some people have more they can put into a swap and some have to be more frugal but there is usually a point where someone has to say "that is all I'm going to spend on this."


I will disagree. Once the car has been cut up and modified for the new engine, really there is no going backward, but forward only. That is the swap business. As for older engines, the platform it operated on is much simpler, but not current and that too is something that needs to be considered in this whole process.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
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