I know there are several threads on various engines but finding a thread that discuses pluses and minuses of various engine choices seems elusive. All the threads I find end up focused on a single lump.
I am considering an engine swap, probably not soon but.... and I know other people are in the same boat. It seems my biggest problem is living in Canada, finding donors is a challenge. Civic SI-Rs command decent money, a couple grand for one running. In the States these things seem to fall out of apple trees compared to us up here.
Yes there are a number of threads and you can find a fair number of them under the Best of Xweb thread, I need to go through and find more and apply proper tags. I believe DrJeff has created one in the past which tries to get at this issue. Yes it does keep coming back to some similar engines due to availability and what is available that meets the specs we all have/want and there for the same things keep coming up.
Some of the engines come from running cars, others come from junk yards and others from engine recycler’s who harvest Japanese cars when they can no longer be or people in Japan are no longer interested in getting them inspected (this is why you see Kei cars in Canada etc).
So Euro engines are off the table for me, I'm looking for something that is more common. Mr2s are NOT common nor are they cheap, Acura GSRs are not cheap...
In general Euro engines are difficult for us in North America due to general availability, finding it and the difficulty of shipping just one largish heavy object over the sea. Some have done it or done it in pieces to add to an engine already available here and marry the parts.
MR2 and Acura cars are not cheap here either and becoming more rare but young folks seem to be good at stuffing them and then the cars are much cheaper. Many of the engines ‘from’ these cars are gotten from Japanese market harvesters of which Craigslist is rife with ads for these companies.
Understand that a engine swap is around a 10k USD endeavor between buying the engine and then getting all the parts made/bought to make the swap. And that is a bare bones number, some have gone to a much higher number depending on how much the owner has had to rely on others to do the work.
To toss in another wrench, I am not happy with the amount of cutting the K20 requires. It is still on the table but I am hoping for something more subtle. Apparently the ecotec engine comes in a tighter package. I personally am hoping for at least 130HP, maybe something I can massage to bump up to 150, but for me it's more about being able to rail on a modern trans over the finesse the stock trans requires.
I am with you here but my observation so far is that all of them have tradeoffs in terms of what is lost from the X in regards to the rear trunk, the engine compartment structural ring etc. There is no perfect engine that fits aside from a SOHC Fiat engine.
With that said, there is a member here who has a 1.9l Fiat SOHC engine kit for sale at a reasonable price, all up it will be a 5K spend to build it (likely) and will drop right into the car with negligible modifications and once you did that you would never go back as the torque and output would spoil you for the original lump. The ad for it is here:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index....troke-crank-and-1-6-punto-block-anyone.37393/ Kent is a standup guy and I would not hesitate to buy from him, he has this engine in his X and it looks great.
As you know there is an Ecotec install on the board, it is a hoary beast and an amazing build.
No trans likes hard, fast shifts and aside from a LS install you are not going to beat a Camaro or Corvette off the line anyway (700hp anyone??). They may take it for a while but slamming a gearshift around on any car is a recipe for a future rebuild.
A possible thing to think about, is there a transmission which could be adapted to work with a Fiat SOHC engine? Perhaps the various Getrags which are bolted to the different Ecotec family of engines, come in 5 and 6 speed and are intended for engines which have similar output to the Fiat SOHC? Machining a new bolt ring to accommodate the different bolt circles and then welding it onto the bell house is a real possibility or making an intermediary adapter to marry the two. Expect to make new drive shafts at @500 and you could be into a new transmission for a bit over a thousand all in.
I would personally like to keep the stock lump and trans and perhaps rebuild it over time and maybe someday reinstall it but that may not happen.
See above about the 1.9 Fiat SOHC
Also the Honda F it engine has been thrown around. How viable would that be? It's a more modern car with most likely more electronics, how much hassle would that be?
This all depends on what software management can be found in the aftermarket from Hondata or others. It’s not exactly a performance engine and this gets us into another bit of territory.
What is an appropriate engine for an X? What engines support the character of the car?
Most modern engines are built for more torque and less high end with the obvious exceptions.
I would argue the engines most likely, small displacement, long stroke, @110-130 hp, are in large measure intended for slushboxes in econobox cars that rarely get redlined (at 6200) by anyone but the teenage son stuck with one of these penalty box cars. This includes the majority of the Ecotec engines, Hyundai, Honda, etc
For me the list of possible donors which I feel are in the ballpark of the ‘right character’ engine are:
Suzuki G13B 1300 twin cam with the OE forged crank and massaged to get the 130 hp (very doable) or more with a turbo which these engines. This is a small lightweight engine which wants to be a 70s Fiat engine. Suzuki Swift GTI. I don’t care as much for the later larger displacement versions of this engine.
Toyota 4A-GE Blue, Red Silver or Black top family MR2. A bit heavy.
Toyota 2ZZ GE (my current favorite which I need to do more investigation of) available in Toyota Matrix’s, Pontiac Vibes and the last Celica. Aluminum and rev happy. And then some.
Honda B series 1.6-1.8 liter twin cams
Honda K20 in it’s various guises
Mazda B twin cam series engines and near relatives from the 323, Capri, Miata, Kia a bit heavy but does the right things.
Mazda KZ V6 (ok I went a bit far but it is a great engine and it might fit but clearly fails the cutting test
)
Fiat SOHC 1.6, 1.9 or Uno Turbo engine
Fiat Air Turbo, you just need to be a friend of another Ontario X owner. Like a really good friend.
None of these will be simple, cheap or a slam dunk to do. The car will be unlikely to be unscathed in the process.
On that list there are engines which will require more or less cutting, modifying of the car and the engine package. Regardless there will be a pile of issues to solve: coolant plumbing, fuel system plumbing, electrical modification, intake modification, exhaust creation, axle changes and not least upgrading the suspension and the braking system of the X.
None of this will be fast or cheap and all will require some serious creativity. Look at the mod threads that show the details the builder has worked through to get to a solution. Most of the builders gloss over all the little details of how it is done, those who take us along really highlight just how difficult it is and how much incredible craft is needed to to get to a successful endpoint.
I am sure others have alternate views but this is the landscape and the lens I tend to think about around this subject.
Good luck.
Karl
