Thinking about getting an X

I must say, Steve...

fiatfactory said:
(you could hardly say the same of one of these K20 abominations.)
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That calling someone else's car (to their face no less) an "abomination" is exceptionally poor form, especially on this forum.

This is supposed to be a civil discussion of what the OP could do with their X1/9 if they so choose. If you choose stock, so be it, I did not. That does not make my car worthy of name calling.

Pete
 
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abomination

abomination
[uh-bom-uh-ney-shuh n]
1. anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation:

personal opinion about anything which has undergone "that four letter word" especially with something Japanese.. I really dislike them...even more so the amount of cutting to Gandini's and Puleo's fine work.

SteveC
 
I won't speak for Steve (or anyone else) but I never questioned whether Matt does a nice job. I'm sure all his "creations" are just wonderful. I just happen to prefer the ones he does with Fiat power.

You know, I've pondered this before (but not here). It always gives me a warm feeling to see the global enthusiasm for my favourite car - the X1/9.

What I don't get though, is actually why some people are enthusiastic about them at all. Clearly they believe that the engine has no potential. The gearboxes are weak and rubbish. The brakes are under-done. The suspensions work well - when you throw away all the standard bits and load it with aftermarket "go faster" bits and add swaybars. The electrics are crap and need to be "improved". The interiors are much better with different seats/instruments/controls/trim. The bodies are made of rusty junk - and are heaps better with all sorts of odd bits added/removed/modified.

What's left? Which bits do these people actually like? I once heard that someone had worked out that the wheels on an X1/9 are roughly in the same place as a Formula Ford racecar. Why not just make a 1 piece fiberglass body and drop it over one of those? RC style?
 
Yes, I'm familiar with the word...

fiatfactory said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abomination

abomination
[uh-bom-uh-ney-shuh n]
1. anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation:

personal opinion about anything which has undergone "that four letter word" especially with something Japanese.. I really dislike them...even more so the amount of cutting to Gandini's and Puleo's fine work.

SteveC
Click to expand...

It was the insult that I was addressing. It seems that your feelings on the subject empower you to be rancorous about it.

Pete
 
Steve - please be respectful

Having an opinion is one thing, purposefully stirring the pot is another thing entirely. Certainly you can express your opinion without so much attitude.

I let the "fat lazy american drivers" comment slide last week because we were already busy dealing with RJH. If you can't carry on a conversation without throwing invective into your posts, you are probably losing. On Xweb, those types of posts really stand out.
 
You mean this Franz Koob?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-kK6O12hVA

If so, I sincerely doubt that 128 had an 1100 or 1300 or 1500 engine. Maybe a Dallara 16 valve or something.

Swapping in another ITALIAN engine into an Italian car is like when we swapped huge AMERICAN engines into other American cars.

Thank God I can appreciate them ALL... I find life much more enjoyable that way. Oh... and congrats on that 3000K trip (gamble) too. It indeed proves that God loves some people more than others!

HA!
 
So Many Things

There are so many things I like about the X1/9, and so many approaches to enjoying these cars. I love my 74, which after a lot of consideration I have decided to keep stock and enjoy the car as a 38k mile original. The 1.3 might be brought to Euro standards, but that is about it. On the other hand, there is another 74 I have my eye on that needs everything and is no longer original. I am interested in a k24 swap for this car with the goal of having a vehicle with the great looks, size, weight, and layout of the X, but with a power to weight ratio better than that of my R/T Challenger. I also would love to have a K24 in an 87 with A/C, power windows, and all of that for commuting in the summer and cross country traveling. Yet I likely will keep my 80 Little Sister conversion stock and enjoy the injected 1.5 Fiat engine as is. I'm not sure why there is so much angst regarding pure versus modified. And when you stroke a 1.3 you are getting rid of what makes these motors almost uniquely oversquare, so given a Honda 2.4 has about the same bore as the Fiat, couldn't it really be thought of as the ultimate stroker? (Ok, please don't flame me on that one - just an extreme example to make a point). Anyway, I think the X1/9 hobby is richer for its diversity.
 
Welcome aboard and dont mind the distractions...

Lets get this back on topic shall we.

The Fiat SOHC engine is an old engine but still a sweetheart to work on. When lavished with the right parts it purrs and snarls at the same time. It is all about what you want to do with it. There are only couple choices to make, EFI or carbed. That being said, you have a couple of performance option for each. On the FI, Turbo suits the engine well. And yes, the motor was not built for a turbo, it handles the extra load just fine. How do I know? I have one. For a quick test many moons ago, I mounted my Uno turbo bits to a stock 1500 and set the boost to 7psi (approx 120hp +/-). No issues whats so ever, and could have gone much higher (14psi+) if I used an intercooler. Thats where on major drawback is, cooling. Being a mid engine car, it's already lacking in direct airflow. Add a huge heat generator and it'll get hot quickly. Also, Damon from Maine put a TD04 turbo into a stock 1500 EFI, no issues as well. Bob B can attest to the donuts he was putting down at a M&G a few years ago. Also, that car may be still up for sale. Damon is a machinist and all the work on the car was/is top notch. On to carbs, the best bang for the buck is a dual carb setup. It's relatively cheap and its bolt on. Dual DCNF's or dual DCOE's, the power increase is great, and the sound is awesome. Once again, I have one of these set ups on the RaceX. Actually I had both iterations (DCNF and DCOE). DCNF's are bolt on that require no mods to the body, DCOE's require "some clearance modifcations". Mind you, I stated my set up(s) and love both of them. The Resto MOD I'm building will get the full Uno Turbo motor and kit with open source engine management where as the race engine in the RaceX is a very expensive motor that took several years to build. Both will put down an honest 125-130hp at the wheels. Which is more than double than stock (considering the 75hp stated is at the crank).

Sorry for the drivel, and I'll leave you with a couple of video's

RaceX in its natural habitat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpbkJ8sbMgU

6 year old video of the Uno Turbo bits on a stock 1500FI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvqrtdApCD8
 
Franken said:
I won't speak for Steve (or anyone else) but I never questioned whether Matt does a nice job. I'm sure all his "creations" are just wonderful. I just happen to prefer the ones he does with Fiat power.

You know, I've pondered this before (but not here). It always gives me a warm feeling to see the global enthusiasm for my favourite car - the X1/9.

What I don't get though, is actually why some people are enthusiastic about them at all. Clearly they believe that the engine has no potential. The gearboxes are weak and rubbish. The brakes are under-done. The suspensions work well - when you throw away all the standard bits and load it with aftermarket "go faster" bits and add swaybars. The electrics are crap and need to be "improved". The interiors are much better with different seats/instruments/controls/trim. The bodies are made of rusty junk - and are heaps better with all sorts of odd bits added/removed/modified.

What's left? Which bits do these people actually like? I once heard that someone had worked out that the wheels on an X1/9 are roughly in the same place as a Formula Ford racecar. Why not just make a 1 piece fiberglass body and drop it over one of those? RC style?
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Find an X you like and can afford and then do what the heck you want to do with it. I try to be open minded about other peoples car projects but there are some that even make me squirm a little. The main thing is what ever you do, do it right. I like the X because it is different and you don't see many of them. Even with that I have to leave my mark on them. I guess I could be the main topic for the post of what the po did to the car. My first X was a basket case I got for a hundred dollars. (Talk about po's.) It was so rusty that I finally gave up on it for safety reasons. What I have done to the 84 I have now would make most of you wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat screaming. But hey, it's my car. Over the years I have seen elitism in just about everything there could be. Everyone wants to think they have the best or they know best. We don't. It is all potential junk so loosen up and have fun with it while it lasts. As Kurt Vonnegut said "we are put on this earth to mess around for a while".
 
Koob's 128 berlina SOHC 8V

Franken's suggestion was informative.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/franz-koob.110040/

"He used to drive yellow Fiat 128 Berlina 2 door. Equipped with inline 4, 1116cc 8V SOHC Lampredi engine,producing 135hp * 11000RPM. Don't know the exact details,but he obviously has Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection with 4 throttle bodies.Heavy modified lightweight internals,and huge duration cams with huge amount of lift. All this combined with 4 speed close ratio gearbox,makes the car go insanely fast for it's small engine."

The images of the underside showed a really interesting 4 into 1 exhaust extractor, not seen in the US. But you can find it in Germany mid-way down this page:

http://www.fiat128.de/Ersatzteile/ersatzteile.html

Pretty incredible bits.
 
Not stirring the pot Jim, expressing an opinion.

Not casting aspersions on Matt's work, just commenting about the major difference between a conversion that I carried out which is completely reversible, and the complete unlikelyhood of any K20 swap that I have seen pictures of being able to be reversible...if you read the post, certainly not an insult towards any individual at all.

Fat lazy america drivers, again a comment regarding Nissan's wholesale changes to their Z model line to accommodate the US market vagaries, if that remark resembles anyone here, my apologies.

Never suggested that a K20 conversion converted the chassis into a "floppy abomination", I was simply stating that here in Australia the onus would be on the person presenting the vehicle for licensing to PROVE that the chassis' integrity had not been compromised... and that is why you will never see one of these conversions legally registered on the road in Australia, due to the cost of said testing to PROVE this as fact.

Take it in context.

SteveC
 
Can't we all just get along? :)

My $.02 on the topic...
- To each his own. It's not wrong to use transplants IMO.
- I've thought about the K20. I'm sentimental about keeping mine all "Fiat" for now.
- However, would be really cool to have a reliable 240HP powerplant, eh???
- OTOH, I put my foot into my slightly modded 1500 and I'm breaking the speed limit pretty darn fast. Unless I'm hitting the on-ramp or racing I don' t think there's much useable upside for me (not very often).
- Like others, I really enjoy putting my foot into the 1500. It really snarls behind my head at 5K+ and it's exciting.

So I'm good for now with what I have but can understand why some others have gone to the Honda powerplant.

As for Americans, our driving habits, and our roads... I've driven in Europe a few times and find the drivers are more skilled and the cars more capable than most of us in the states. They have to be! Roads are more narrow and twisty there than most of ours. As a passenger in Europte, even my wife stated that she had likely strengthened her butt muscles by frequently clenching them every time I had to thread the needle through hedge or rocks on one side with a small bus on the other during a tight turn at 40-50MPH. :)

We do a lot more "cruising" here with bigger cars and wider smooth roads with less twists. We DO have some great narrow twisties here as well (and I drive them whenever I can). But the majority of our roads aren't like that.
 
geekdaddy said:
Can't we all just get along? :)

My $.02 on the topic...
- To each his own. It's not wrong to use transplants IMO.
- I've thought about the K20. I'm sentimental about keeping mine all "Fiat" for now.
- However, would be really cool to have a reliable 240HP powerplant, eh???
- OTOH, I put my foot into my slightly modded 1500 and I'm breaking the speed limit pretty darn fast. Unless I'm hitting the on-ramp or racing I don' t think there's much useable upside for me (not very often).
- Like others, I really enjoy putting my foot into the 1500. It really snarls behind my head at 5K+ and it's exciting.
.....
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you can add my $.02 to the above, faster is always better but "as is' is still pretty darn fun! Time to go drive, later.
 
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