AC Condensor

Hussein, I don't know I think that it gives it that

flux capacitor look! That would turn a few heads.
TonyK, that's good info and I will cogitate on that route for a few days. You guys are men of action. Me, I tend to over analyze before I start! I think I am getting close to finishing the analyzer part.:)
 
Larry

Sometimes you just have to take the plunge.

In the time you have been studying, I would have had 3 cars totally up and running with AC.

But then that is me.

Post some pictures when you are in progress.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
Push or pull?

Hopefully you're drawing the air out instead of forcing air in..
You might want to consult with VinnieT for that "back to the future" look. :)

I found that the auxiliary pump I made up front near the radiator made a huge difference in temperature when running slow.
I had no issues at all when on the highway, although Jim WYOX19 finds the Queen running hot on 10 mile uphill stretches at 1 mile elevations

I'm convinced that the air conditioning hardware (condenser and pump) are a major cause for excessive engine temps in an X. Too much HP is lost and compensated for out a 75-80 HP engine with the marginally adequate coolant pump Fiat supplies with that engine IMHO. The coolant has to travel through about 24 feet of hose and radiator before it returns to the spot where it started. Pretty big duty for such a tiny coolant pump. Especially at low RPM's.
That AC condenser on the front of the radiator doesn't help with airflow either, especially at low speeds.
I still haven't given up the idea of building up a complete replica aluminum radiator with more cores / better flow while maintaining the same footprint of the original brass/copper one. The issue is cost plus someone willing to build one up. Looking like about a grand (plus) for someone willing to do it.
 
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Componets.

Bob building one is not the issue.

Finding the componets to make one is. I have not been able to find anyone that will sell the header tanks, so that I can fab one up.

But, if you have a source then maybe together collectively we can build what the X needs to solve this cooling issue.

I am all ears.

Sorry to go in another direction on this thread. Maybe we can start a new thread and come up with something that will work.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
What shall we pursue?

"Header tanks"? Are you referring to the area that surrounds the pump?

Should we concentrate on improved circulation at the pump, or should we pursue better heat exchange, (radiator) or should we be doing both?

I've not done any thermal studies on the radiator but I'm betting someone has and that's not the primary issue.

One thing I've observed in dis-assembly of X's is that the cooling system collects a LOT of iron from the block and deposit it throughout the entire cooling system.
I've removed a lot of coolant pumps that are loaded with iron deposits all through water pump impeller / housing and coolant tubes, so I can't imagine how much of this ends up in the radiator coolant tubes over time.
I also notice the head gasket collect a lot of corrosive debris around the coolant passages too. I'm not sure what a proper method of cleaning those passages are. (Hence the importance of flushing our X's coolant systems every 2 to 3 years.)

That extra circulation pump I did a few years back addressed the issue with the engine overheating at idle, (say stuck in traffic jams and lengthy stop lights) but seems to do little for Jim (WYOX19) who drives under heavy load for lengthy times and at elevation. That spells "better radiator needed" to me. Your thoughts?

I understand this is a little off Hussein's original post but might be helpful.
 
That fan is pulling air from the bay, not pushing.

The (slightly larger) VW rad has better cooling than the stock X rad, I have no heat issues at highway speeds under load.

Howe Racing will build any rad to whatever spec you want. I paid $500 for a 3" core rad to the same overall dimensions with mount brackets, etc for my Volvo. I doubt a 3" core 28x10 rad would cost that much.

Bob, I'm with you on the low flow at idle causing the overheat (with AC on). I used your thread as inspiration & fabbed up a elbow for my EWP

I used a old piece of brass plumbing & some copper pipe. May have to trim the 1/2" ID pipes

IMG_1306.jpg


1/2"ID pipes are cut on an angle to aid in unrestricted flow out & in the elbow pipe. They are flush with the inner wall of the 1.5" main pipe

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EWP is from a Volvo auxiliary heater kit (from the '90's) - while looking at the ones available online, I remembered that I had seen one at the shop. I'll probably wire it into the fan sensor.

IMG_1309.jpg


I'll get back to it on Tuesday, when we get back from Saratoga.
 
Put in the pump today. I tested it for functionality, but don't know what the flow specs are on it.

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Wired it into the fan sensor circuit, so it kicks in when the fans come on - around 210ºF (engine temp, sensor is in return hose, 150ºF activation).

Anyway, the problem I have now is that the alternator can barely keep up with the AC, the fans, etc. Voltage can drop to under 12V, especially if I happen to be stepping on the brake, or god forbid, turn the lights on.

So, this is next

Volvo/NipponDenso 100a alternator

IMG_1320.jpg


IMG_1319.jpg


yellow marker indicates the area I cut off to align the pulley offset. Just have to make an adaptor for the tensioner arm, since it's set further around than the old Bosch clunker
 
Memories

Yes working on the X is much like flying a Helicopter. Make one change and it upsets everything else.

For years I used a Mazda B2000 1980 alternator which failed a few years back. I removed the cast mount and milled it to suit the GM alternator.

As for cooling on my car I am running dual X1/9 rads with dual fans. This seems to have beaten the beast, but of course I had to make a custom grill to hide it all.

Keep going you are almost there.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
Extra Cooling

Additional cooling development.



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The 2 copper 5/8" lines were used in the heater circuit to feed 2 heater cores at the front of the car parallel to the ground in the rad air flow exhaust stream. Simply stated when the car is on a hoist look up at the hole where the fans are and fill it in with a frame with 2 heater cores.

Although this worked well I did not have a thermostat control over this added cooling. Driving in the rain or cool days the engine just would not heat up. This was abandoned and the 2 small lines have been removed. A set of TEEs were made to turn on or shut off the flow. This would be the less intrusive and noticed way of adding additional cooling to the car. The TEE's were in the heater core circuit. In the winter you would close off the additional cooling to have cabin heat. In the summer you just open the additional heater cores to provide more cooling.



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Hence dual rads. The stock rad stays put. But the additional rad is in front of the stock rad and the piping faces forward. 2 custom copper fittings were soldered to the rad to make this happen.



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Here is a close up of the Front Rad fitting swagged from a section of copper pipe. The cap is a section of copper pipe opened and flattened then silver soldered to the tube. The fittings are soft soldered to the rad with lead solder.





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TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
Thanks Tony!

Great pics! Gives me food for thought.

Also curious what you were using the corrugated hoses for...

p7241248.jpg


Is your AC condensor sandwiched between the two rads?
 
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Fitted the ND alternator today.

IMG_1334.jpg


Just need a longer tensioner bracket

IMG_1333.jpg


This is the only issue to speak of...

IMG_1335.jpg


I took the alt apart to try re-clocking, but not possible. Since this is the fully tensioned position, with the stock length belt, it really doesn't matter, it's not going to touch - and the R134a fitting cover is plastic.

Just have to change the batt cable eyelets to M8, and fit the longer tensioner.
 
Cooling for...

lookforjoe said:
Great pics! Gives me food for thought.

Also curious what you were using the corrugated hoses for...

p7241248.jpg


Is your AC condensor sandwiched between the two rads?
Click to expand...

The front brakes. I will have to take some pictures of this mod as well if you like to explain it better.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
That would be nice - you still have the stock brakes, also?

Curious where the ducts are drawing the air from - I presume they feed air to the brakes, not draw air out....

I actually still like the idea of the heater cores - where did you splice into the heater circuit? Presumably in paralell to the stock heater core so as not to interfere with flow when the main core is not wanted for heating?

I'm going to have to play around with fitment of the stock rad, which I still have, in front of the condensor, just to see how it could be fitted.

Did you note any of the hose PN's you used to make it all fit?
 
Quote

Did you note any of the hose PN's you used to make it all fit?[/QUOTE]

For the rad hose I just went into Car Quest and told him I had a Fiat X1/9 and needed some hoses which he did not stock nor had a listing. I then asked if I could look at what hoses he did stock and that I would purchase a hose or two to cut and splice to make what I had work.

They were fine with that and just let me into the warehouse. I cut up and used 2 hoses to make things work.

TonyK,

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
FYI Benz, BMW, and later VW's used that aux coolant pump. Benz is the easiest one to find em on.

So what is the function of the aux pump in this situation? Are we trying to move coolant faster at idle to help improve over the lack of flow from the stock pump at idle with the A/C on? Ive been following the thread here and there, but im trying to keep on top of what we are trying to accomplish here :)

Mark
 
Brake cooling.

TonyK said:
The front brakes. I will have to take some pictures of this mod as well if you like to explain it better.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
Click to expand...

I owned a 74 X and traded it in for a 79 new 5 speed right from the dealer floor. I liked the car but did not like how the front plastic corners ended short of the wheels. So.... I made these fillers with ducts to the backing plates of the front brakes for added cooling. At the time this installation worked very well. Currently the hoses are broken just at the backing plate and I was going to install new hoses. I really could have used them in Virginia a FFO 2012 this year. Live and learn.

Anyway here are the pictures.



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TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
autocomman said:
FYI Benz, BMW, and later VW's used that aux coolant pump. Benz is the easiest one to find em on.

So what is the function of the aux pump in this situation? Are we trying to move coolant faster at idle to help improve over the lack of flow from the stock pump at idle with the A/C on? Ive been following the thread here and there, but im trying to keep on top of what we are trying to accomplish here :)

Mark
Click to expand...

Yes, Mark - the expected function of the aux pump in this case is to aid in coolant flow at low rpm's, with the AC on.

In my case, I'm not sure that the pump I'm using is doing anything - I wasn't sure if the low output of the alternator was impacting the cooling fans & aux pump operation, but I ran the car this morning with the higher output alternator with AC, lights, fans, engine cover fan & the gauge still indicated temps of 220-230 after extensive idling.

It starts here - then goes up a notch
IMG_1339.jpg


Since I like a project, I think I'll look into either Tony's dual rad or extra heater core.
 
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