86 X19 fuel pump..
- Thread starter TajMan
- Start date
ng_randolph
Bjorn H
That all seems good. What do you see at terminal 88y? There should be battery voltage at all times.
With the dual relay installed, what do you see at terminal 88d? You should see battery voltage with the ignition on and the flapper open. You should also see battery voltage at 88d with the starter cranking (except, of course, that battery voltage will be lower with the starter running)?
With the dual relay installed, what do you see at terminal 88d? You should see battery voltage with the ignition on and the flapper open. You should also see battery voltage at 88d with the starter cranking (except, of course, that battery voltage will be lower with the starter running)?
I don't seem to see any voltage at 88d, even with the starter cranking and the flap held open.
This comes back to problem I've been testing originally, this 88d is the fuel pump green w/ black strp wire. Key off, I read nothing there. Key on ACC OR when cranking, I'm just seeing .02-.03V which is basically nothing.
Does this point to a bad relay?
ng_randolph
Bjorn H
Assuming you see battery voltage at 88y (and I think you said you did a few posts back), this points to the relay.
As Bob B suggested earlier, you can open up the relay and probably fix it (likely to be a solder joint gone bad after years of vibration or possibly a broken diode). You can also get new ones for $50 - $60. Look for Bosch part number 0332514121. This relay was used on a lot of European cars at the time and they are still available.
strangepod
1987 Bertone X1/9
And if you are really cheap like me you might find one at your local pull-a-part, but then that is no guarantee that it is any good.
What other cars use this Bosch L-jetronic system with the same relay any?, I could possibly find? Obviously I'm not going to find any fuel injected X19's at any of those type junk yards around here..
lookforjoe
True Classic
IMO I think it highly unlikely you will find a used one. You would need to find an very early 80's European car with L-Jet - which in the US would pretty much mean only VW. Any of the main stream manufacturers (such as VW/Audi) switched to LH-Jet by 1982-83. Old Mazda's used a copy of L-jet in the very early 80's also. Chances of finding any of those are very slim, if they even used a similar relay.
Take apart your own relay as suggested. It is pretty easy to see cracked solder joints if you look at the circuit board & diodes are easy to check with a multi-meter. You could take closeup pics & post them here using Photobucket or another image hosting account.
Easy...
The dual relay cover pops off pretty easily... just use a small knife or screwdriver to get under the tabs at the sides. Cover slides off from terminal board.
The dual relay cover pops off pretty easily... just use a small knife or screwdriver to get under the tabs at the sides. Cover slides off from terminal board.
rx1900
1981 X1/9
Some info...
Hi Taj. You asked what other cars used this relay to see if you could find one in the junkyards. Well......
I have an old Bosch fuel injection catalog. It shows:
Bosch # 0 332 514 121 used on:
Fiat X1/9 '80-'81
Fiat Strada '80
Fiat Brava '80-'81
Fiat Spyder '81
Alfa GTV6 '81-'82
BMW 528i '79-'80
BMW 633CSi '78-'80
Renault Fuego 1.6 non-turbo '82-'83
Renault R18i '80-'83
Triumph TR7 '80-'81
Bosch # 0 332 514 127 used on:
Alfa GTV6 '83-'84
Alfa Milano '89-'92
Fiat X1/9 '82-'88
Fiat Spyder '82
Note that Bosch call for 2 different X1/9 relays, depending on year. I think it is possible (maybe likely ? ) that 0 332 514 121 was replaced by 0 332 514 127, and that they are functionally interchangable. I dont know, but note that MWB sells the 0 332 514 121 and say it works for all years of X1/9s....
So I guess you could try to find one of the above vehicles in the junkyard.....but probably nothing there that is too easy to find...
But if you do, the Bosch #s above will be on the relay itself. So you will know you found the right one.
Failing that, search on Ebay using the Bosch # in the search box. You will find lots. A quick search found the 121 relay brand new as low as $30 or so. Our usual vendors seem to have them as well. Or lots of used ones floating around.
If you want to try repairing yours, check out this thread from one of the Alfa forums.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alf...3-bosch-double-relay-0-332-514-121-et-al.html
He claims usually just a simple resistor needs changing, but they cant seem to agree on what value resistor to use...
Hope this helps. Good luck. Doug
Hi Taj. You asked what other cars used this relay to see if you could find one in the junkyards. Well......
I have an old Bosch fuel injection catalog. It shows:
Bosch # 0 332 514 121 used on:
Fiat X1/9 '80-'81
Fiat Strada '80
Fiat Brava '80-'81
Fiat Spyder '81
Alfa GTV6 '81-'82
BMW 528i '79-'80
BMW 633CSi '78-'80
Renault Fuego 1.6 non-turbo '82-'83
Renault R18i '80-'83
Triumph TR7 '80-'81
Bosch # 0 332 514 127 used on:
Alfa GTV6 '83-'84
Alfa Milano '89-'92
Fiat X1/9 '82-'88
Fiat Spyder '82
Note that Bosch call for 2 different X1/9 relays, depending on year. I think it is possible (maybe likely ? ) that 0 332 514 121 was replaced by 0 332 514 127, and that they are functionally interchangable. I dont know, but note that MWB sells the 0 332 514 121 and say it works for all years of X1/9s....
So I guess you could try to find one of the above vehicles in the junkyard.....but probably nothing there that is too easy to find...
But if you do, the Bosch #s above will be on the relay itself. So you will know you found the right one.
Failing that, search on Ebay using the Bosch # in the search box. You will find lots. A quick search found the 121 relay brand new as low as $30 or so. Our usual vendors seem to have them as well. Or lots of used ones floating around.
If you want to try repairing yours, check out this thread from one of the Alfa forums.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alf...3-bosch-double-relay-0-332-514-121-et-al.html
He claims usually just a simple resistor needs changing, but they cant seem to agree on what value resistor to use...
Hope this helps. Good luck. Doug
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Good work, now can you "bench test" each one...
by using a 12 volt source and see if they operate?
by using a 12 volt source and see if they operate?
rx1900
1981 X1/9
Hmmm...
Hard to say from my small computor screen, but you MAY....have a bad solder joint - centre and a bit to the right - on the back of the board (last pic).
See this for some help:
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/ljet/combo_fix.html
Good luck....
Hard to say from my small computor screen, but you MAY....have a bad solder joint - centre and a bit to the right - on the back of the board (last pic).
See this for some help:
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/ljet/combo_fix.html
Good luck....
strangepod
1987 Bertone X1/9
Check all solder connections, a hairline crack will cause all sorts of blah blah blah. Use a loop if needed (I do with my older eye's
).
John
).John
ng_randolph
Bjorn H
I agree, hard to tell from a photo, but these two solder joints look like they could be bad:
Last edited:
After closer inspection, i was suspect of two different pins (not the two you circled above)
One just had an empty spot of solder on one side of the pin I thought I could improve even though probably not broken,
however the other had what appeared to be a break all around the pin!
I soldered those up, hoping it would fix.
I just tested in the car. As soon as I plugged the white plug into the relay, the pump immediately began running even with the key off! I thought, well at least the car will start now so I can see, even if the relay has been ruined..
No dice though, the engine still doesn't start, even though the fuel pump continually runs! Crap
And the cold start injector is leaking slightly now it seems (I pulled the hose off that previously for testing and was wiggling it a lot).
I PM'd budgetzagato about a used relay he said he could send me,
but now I'm clueless why my engine isn't starting even with a fuel pump running now.
One just had an empty spot of solder on one side of the pin I thought I could improve even though probably not broken,
however the other had what appeared to be a break all around the pin!
I soldered those up, hoping it would fix.
I just tested in the car. As soon as I plugged the white plug into the relay, the pump immediately began running even with the key off! I thought, well at least the car will start now so I can see, even if the relay has been ruined..
No dice though, the engine still doesn't start, even though the fuel pump continually runs! Crap
And the cold start injector is leaking slightly now it seems (I pulled the hose off that previously for testing and was wiggling it a lot).
I PM'd budgetzagato about a used relay he said he could send me,
but now I'm clueless why my engine isn't starting even with a fuel pump running now.
strangepod
1987 Bertone X1/9
Make sure in all of the hoop-la that you didn't move something (wire etc) change something(timing etc) and check your fuel pressure. Is the fuel pump wired correctly? Not backwards? Look for loose hoses/ disconnected ..
John
John
lookforjoe
True Classic
If soldering the relay caused the pump to run continuously then it is likely you bridged something when soldering, no other explanation besides a stuck AFM flap that would ground the relay prior to cranking. If you have checked your soldering, then I would check the wiring and flap is actually closed....
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
I was gonna say the same as Hussein here... Also...
Take a peak at the flap first.
Then try to start it again using ETHER.
If it won't start on the starting fluid, then you have an ignition problem.
HTH...
Take a peak at the flap first.
Then try to start it again using ETHER.
If it won't start on the starting fluid, then you have an ignition problem.
HTH...
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
+10.
The fuel pump should run initially for about 10 seconds once the AFM flap switch has been activated, it should turn the fuel pump of when the AFM flap is closed.
Under normal running conditions, the AFM flap is always open to allow air to enter the motor, when the motor is no longer running the AFM flap is closed stopping the fuel pump. There is timer built into the EFI system to accommodate start up when the initial motor crank over generated enough vacuum to open the AFM flap starting the fuel pump timer.
Getting the fuel pump to run is not enough, sort out what has caused the fuel pump to run on power before proceeding.
Bernice
The fuel pump should run initially for about 10 seconds once the AFM flap switch has been activated, it should turn the fuel pump of when the AFM flap is closed.
Under normal running conditions, the AFM flap is always open to allow air to enter the motor, when the motor is no longer running the AFM flap is closed stopping the fuel pump. There is timer built into the EFI system to accommodate start up when the initial motor crank over generated enough vacuum to open the AFM flap starting the fuel pump timer.
Getting the fuel pump to run is not enough, sort out what has caused the fuel pump to run on power before proceeding.
Bernice