Quantumleap
Rich Banks
I say this is a much better design than the X1/99 study that came out a few years ago, THIS is a very promising idea and is as close to a modern X as it gets, I for one love it
The Fiat XXX ??????
- Thread starter Jim McKenzie
- Start date
And if anyone missed the X1/99 years ago.....
Check this Google image search to see the X1/99 as envisioned by some design students IIRC. There are other images pulled in, but lots of the X1/99.
https://www.google.com/search?q=X1/...X&ved=0CCcQsARqFQoTCJPqgdvDm8kCFRBQiAodBAUKvA
I am with Rich, I like this new concept better.
Check this Google image search to see the X1/99 as envisioned by some design students IIRC. There are other images pulled in, but lots of the X1/99.
https://www.google.com/search?q=X1/...X&ved=0CCcQsARqFQoTCJPqgdvDm8kCFRBQiAodBAUKvA
I am with Rich, I like this new concept better.
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
From a production and money-maker-for-the-manufacturer point of view, there HAS to be something like it out there or else it won't be built.
Today's manufacturer's have to be able to get two, three, or four cars out of a platform for it to be cost-effective for mass production.
Assuming the above is correct, the only thing that the FCA conglomerate has that is close to a mid engine two seater would be the Alfa 4c. But FIAT is not going to product a de-contented 4c and call it an X1/9, that would cut the legs out from under the 4c.
But what about a car that looks a lot like this concept that is made mostly from steel but has the same or similar overall dimensions and general layout as the 4c to possibly assemble on the same production line to save some costs, with a FIAT engine (say the Abarth 1.4 turbo or a slightly larger 1.6 turbo) that's less powerful than the Alfa but in the 180HP range.
Might that be feasible in today's climate?
Or is there something else out there that is X1/9-like that could be a cooperative effort like the Miata-124 project?
Today's manufacturer's have to be able to get two, three, or four cars out of a platform for it to be cost-effective for mass production.
Assuming the above is correct, the only thing that the FCA conglomerate has that is close to a mid engine two seater would be the Alfa 4c. But FIAT is not going to product a de-contented 4c and call it an X1/9, that would cut the legs out from under the 4c.
But what about a car that looks a lot like this concept that is made mostly from steel but has the same or similar overall dimensions and general layout as the 4c to possibly assemble on the same production line to save some costs, with a FIAT engine (say the Abarth 1.4 turbo or a slightly larger 1.6 turbo) that's less powerful than the Alfa but in the 180HP range.
Might that be feasible in today's climate?
Or is there something else out there that is X1/9-like that could be a cooperative effort like the Miata-124 project?
geekdaddy
X1/9 Learner's Permit...
Lotus!!!
Greg (in Conn)
Bertone curator - X driver
Wow we came close..:sad:
Q&A with Fiat brand director Olivier Francois
These are US-market cars. When will we see European versions of the 124 Spider and will they be much different?
You’ll see them at Geneva motor show in 2016. And yes, they will be tailored a bit more towards the European market. There are some differences, but I don’t want to get into details just now.
Why did you choose to bring back the 124 Spider? You could just as easily have chosen the X1/9, couldn’t you?
That’s funny, because we did indeed consider the X1/9. It’s another classic Fiat, and it offers the open-top experience as well, of course. But we decided that the brand equity was a bit stronger with the 124.
The launch cars in the US and Europe have relatively modest power outputs. Will you consider encouraging tuning of 124s? Are we going to see extreme versions of this car at SEMA next year, for example?
We already know there’s appetite for that. About one in five 500s sold here is an Abarth version, so we know the customer base is there. We might well look at doing a tuned version of the 124, therefore.
Would that have an Abarth badge?
It might have an Abarth badge, yes.
How have you tried to differ the driving experience of this car from the MX-5’s?
I’ll leave the details down to the engineers but believe me, the experience is very similar to what made the original 124 Spider so popular. By that I mean it’s fun to drive and has a perfect power-to-weight ratio.
What about pricing - will it match the Mazda’s prices?
It will be in the ballpark for the sector, for sure.
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
OMG, I don't want to be around when Bernice reads that, she's gonna go super-nova!
Yet more evidence that the FIAT [br]ass hats hated, and still hate the X1/9.
Jim McKenzie
1972 850 Spider
weird, because I always thought
that THIS was the X1/99. Strange how many "new X1/9" attempts they've been, without fruition.
was it this one?
or this one?
that THIS was the X1/99. Strange how many "new X1/9" attempts they've been, without fruition.
was it this one?
or this one?
Show up at an FFO and read the field
Ha! Good one, Dan. We will get Bernice all wound up and air drop her on the Fiat America hq.
I can see their point though. At FFO there are two gazillion Spiders and maybe 30 X1/9s. If you are trying to target the largest market, the Spider is the bigger pool of potential buyers.
I don't buy new cars of any brand anymore, so I am certainly not the target.
Ha! Good one, Dan. We will get Bernice all wound up and air drop her on the Fiat America hq.
I can see their point though. At FFO there are two gazillion Spiders and maybe 30 X1/9s. If you are trying to target the largest market, the Spider is the bigger pool of potential buyers.
I don't buy new cars of any brand anymore, so I am certainly not the target.
Greg (in Conn)
Bertone curator - X driver
Jim McKenzie
1972 850 Spider
LOL Greg! But this last one is pretty nice too
Be sure to check the front and back photos, the white X1/9 is at the bottom of the page.
http://xtomi.blogspot.com/search/label/fiat
or for those who like life easier
Be sure to check the front and back photos, the white X1/9 is at the bottom of the page.
http://xtomi.blogspot.com/search/label/fiat
or for those who like life easier
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
I'm with Dave on this one...I would be lining up to put down a deposit if that hit the showroom floor!
It's got all the right styling cues to make it an X19 update.
SteveC
It's got all the right styling cues to make it an X19 update.
SteveC
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
The numbers are telling a story, but I'm not sure what that story is.
Consider that both the X and 124/2000 were intended more for, if not designed primarily for, the American market.
Consider that overall production numbers for both cars were pretty close, Wikipedia says about 165,000 of the X and about 172,000 of the 124/2000.
From what I have read, at least 2/3 of Xs were sold in North America/USA, and the vast majority of 124/2000s were sold in North America/USA.
So it stands to reason that there would be more 124/2000s than Xs, but the proportions that you see at FFOs, and that I see at FIAT gatherings (at least 5-1 in favor of the Spider) are not in line with production and sales.
So that's a good question in and of itself, why have proportionately many more 124/2000s survived than have Xs?
Consider that both the X and 124/2000 were intended more for, if not designed primarily for, the American market.
Consider that overall production numbers for both cars were pretty close, Wikipedia says about 165,000 of the X and about 172,000 of the 124/2000.
From what I have read, at least 2/3 of Xs were sold in North America/USA, and the vast majority of 124/2000s were sold in North America/USA.
So it stands to reason that there would be more 124/2000s than Xs, but the proportions that you see at FFOs, and that I see at FIAT gatherings (at least 5-1 in favor of the Spider) are not in line with production and sales.
So that's a good question in and of itself, why have proportionately many more 124/2000s survived than have Xs?
jvandyke
True Classic
Maybe because the Spider was a full convertible "traditional" roadster and the X a "modern" "weird" mid engine with modern styling. The spider was "old school" when it was new. The X was forward thinking. People probably gravitate toward the past when looking for "classic" fun cars play with. So over the last 20-30 years the X was ignored and now it's getting too late. I think the X is coming into it's own but now there's not so many to choose from.
Joe F
Hi Miles, Lo Maintenance
If I MAy...
Having owned both cars, I will offer my $0.02.
In my opinion, a good running 124 is a way more satisfying car than an X. It has more power, better balance, it's more comfortable and has a full convertible top. I would guess that these properties are what the marketing guys are looking for in a new car that will probably cost $5K more than a Miata.
Now don't get me wrong. Once I drove an X, there was no going back for me, but they are two different cars aimed at different markets.
Fiat is shooting for up-scale with the 124 and I hope they hit it.
Having owned both cars, I will offer my $0.02.
In my opinion, a good running 124 is a way more satisfying car than an X. It has more power, better balance, it's more comfortable and has a full convertible top. I would guess that these properties are what the marketing guys are looking for in a new car that will probably cost $5K more than a Miata.
Now don't get me wrong. Once I drove an X, there was no going back for me, but they are two different cars aimed at different markets.
Fiat is shooting for up-scale with the 124 and I hope they hit it.
kmead
Old enough to know better
The Spider is of the classic sports car genre whose history goes back into the 30's.
In addition to what Joe said, it is a more accommodating car that demands much less of the driver. It's nature is more languid with a fairly soft ride, large cockpit, relatively high seating position and again that traditional sports car theme. The twin cam engine and easy accessibility doesn't hurt either and that some 131 bits fit didn't hurt when it came to hop up parts.
As folks who owned both age, getting in and out becomes a big deal and the added pounds we have all put on makes the space an X offers seem a bit less with each passing year. It's easy to see why they are choosing put to restore a car they can actually drive.
I think the X being more complex to maintain and having less replacement part accessibility for the most part was more likely to meet the crusher particularly once parts of the unibody rusted through and couldn't be easily replaced.
I have a 124 Sports Coupe and do prefer it as a day to day car but have never preferred it as a performance car relative to the X. The chassis dynamics are no where near being in the same class and even though it has more power, the energy conservation of an X through the corners means there is just no competition on a tight twisty road.
Fiat chose the right car to build off of and the right car to emulate, the costs of development, the likely sales potential and the fact that the other mid engine sports car of the past has had trouble selling in any numbers (MR2). Not my preference but from a business standpoint they made the right choice.
In addition to what Joe said, it is a more accommodating car that demands much less of the driver. It's nature is more languid with a fairly soft ride, large cockpit, relatively high seating position and again that traditional sports car theme. The twin cam engine and easy accessibility doesn't hurt either and that some 131 bits fit didn't hurt when it came to hop up parts.
As folks who owned both age, getting in and out becomes a big deal and the added pounds we have all put on makes the space an X offers seem a bit less with each passing year. It's easy to see why they are choosing put to restore a car they can actually drive.
I think the X being more complex to maintain and having less replacement part accessibility for the most part was more likely to meet the crusher particularly once parts of the unibody rusted through and couldn't be easily replaced.
I have a 124 Sports Coupe and do prefer it as a day to day car but have never preferred it as a performance car relative to the X. The chassis dynamics are no where near being in the same class and even though it has more power, the energy conservation of an X through the corners means there is just no competition on a tight twisty road.
Fiat chose the right car to build off of and the right car to emulate, the costs of development, the likely sales potential and the fact that the other mid engine sports car of the past has had trouble selling in any numbers (MR2). Not my preference but from a business standpoint they made the right choice.
Jeff Stich
True Classic
No.
Ahh, but the mere mention of FCA's consideration of a modern X1/9 clearly shows the opposite! :brow:
It's quite obvious that, if a manufacturer is going to introduce a "retro" version of a classic sportscar, they're going to look for the model that is still most recognizable in the minds of the general public & appeals to the broadest slice of the market. It's all about market share, & the 124 Spider is the obvious choice, hands down.
The important thing for FCA at the moment is to get the brand re-established in America beyond the various 500 models, & the "124" name/model is the logical choice to do just that. And seeing as how FCA did consider an X1/9 remake, it leaves the door open for it being a future possibility as a 3rd- or 4th-gen "retro" FCA product.
Ahh, but the mere mention of FCA's consideration of a modern X1/9 clearly shows the opposite! :brow:
It's quite obvious that, if a manufacturer is going to introduce a "retro" version of a classic sportscar, they're going to look for the model that is still most recognizable in the minds of the general public & appeals to the broadest slice of the market. It's all about market share, & the 124 Spider is the obvious choice, hands down.
The important thing for FCA at the moment is to get the brand re-established in America beyond the various 500 models, & the "124" name/model is the logical choice to do just that. And seeing as how FCA did consider an X1/9 remake, it leaves the door open for it being a future possibility as a 3rd- or 4th-gen "retro" FCA product.