Melted Piston.

Thanks, Tony.


Yes, mileage is down. About 200 miles on a tank, driving about 30 miles a day. I would expect better economy on extended highway. Local & short trips are the worst. I'm happy with the performance, so I'm not complaining.

That guy (Irv Gordon) wouldn't know a fuel rail from a intake, so I don't really count him as anything other than a driver :)
 
Re: rpm vs. mph

lookforjoe said:
Runs really nicely - so much more power on tap when cruising. Around 3500 in 5th, I just have to ease on the gas & it takes off like a rocket :) I believe the speedo is very optimistic, though. I really would like a 6 speed trans now, to drop the revs when cruising.
Click to expand...

Outside of installing said mystery 6-speed trans, there is the option of swapping a Fiat Strada 17/61 (3.58) ring & pinion gearset into your X1/9 5-speed trans. Going from a 4.08 final drive to a 3.58 would definitely help get those revs down at cruising speed. :wink2:
 
Jeff Stich said:
Outside of installing said mystery 6-speed trans, there is the option of swapping a Fiat Strada 17/61 (3.58) ring & pinion gearset into your X1/9 5-speed trans. Going from a 4.08 final drive to a 3.58 would definitely help get those revs down at cruising speed. :wink2:
Click to expand...

Worth noting. Do you know where I can find the related rpm/speed info to go with that? Did they also have an LSD?
 
Getting caught up on this project. Very, very nicely done and quite resourceful with Bosch EFI bits.

The Strada final drive lowers engine RPM about 500-600 RPM at 70 mph relative to the stock exxe final drive. No limited slip.

Before considering adding a limited slip diff, read this article from Taylor Racing on diffs, "Understanding Differentials."

http://www.taylor-race.com/techsprt.cfm


What prevented the Bosch SAAB LH2.2 ecu from working in this conversion?


Bernice





lookforjoe said:
Worth noting. Do you know where I can find the related rpm/speed info to go with that? Did they also have an LSD?
Click to expand...
 
Almost unlimited choice of final drive ratios if you have deep pockets... same with LSD centres... Bacci & Romano out of Italy ... the X19 five speed is the same as the (bottom change style) Uno Turbo...

Final drive from other models (and different fourth/fifth gear ratios) can also be had from a number of twin cam powered variants (like Regata 1600 and Strada/Ritmo with twin cam 2.0 powerplants) again look for the 'bottom change' gearbox variants...

here's some of the information tabulated...

http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12349

SteveC
 
Rupunzell said:
Getting caught up on this project. Very, very nicely done and quite resourceful with Bosch EFI bits.
The Strada final drive lowers engine RPM about 500-600 RPM at 70 mph relative to the stock exxe final drive. No limited slip.
Before considering adding a limited slip diff, read this article from Taylor Racing on diffs, "Understanding Differentials."
http://www.taylor-race.com/techsprt.cfm

What prevented the Bosch SAAB LH2.2 ecu from working in this conversion?
Bernice
Click to expand...

Thank you.

The Saab ECU will only work with the Saab Mass Meter - the one I bought had been dropped and the wire was broken - but I didn't catch it until long after the auction closed.

Good point though, I may invest in another AFM, as the Saab ECU I can remap :)

I didn't read your linked article yet. The issue I have is that I can break the left rear free easily even in dry pavement. Turns are worse. I was assuming OEM style clutch plate (at least that's what Volvo always supplied - my rear diff is this type ) style diff, as opposed to the Quaife (that I have in my Volvo front diff), or a Gripper.

Edit: I'll start with new tires - however if I do pull the trans again, I'll want a posi to go in :)
 
Bosch LH2.2 used in the SAAB has a hot wire air mass sensor (originally a Marelli patent sold to Bosch).
They can be rebuilt if the wire dies. The aftermarket ones do not have a good track record, stick with OEM Bosch.

What is attractive about the SAAB version of LH, the ECU can be programmed, mapped via SAAB suite, set up for turbo complete with knock sensor and all the goodies needed to manage a turbo motor along with ignition control via SAAB apc using a variant of the Bosch dizzy that could be fitted to the Fiat. It looks that this was already done with the Volvo version which appears to work good.

The later SAAB Trionic 5 will not work as it requires installing the DI cassette for ignition, crank triggered and a lot of other details that make retrofitting it to a non-SAAB motor difficult. Yet, SAAB kept the user programmable interface which allows tinkering with the ECU.

I'm kinda fan of open diffs when possible. If wheel spin occurs, tweaking the suspension would be the first place to try. Before tinkering with the suspension, sticky tires and proper wheels first, if the problem persist, then move on to the suspension.

We have never had a wheel spin problem with the LeMons car coming out of a corner, it has a LOT of power and when that chassis is properly set up, it just launches the car out of the turn with an open diff. It does have MUCH higher spring rates than stock with Koni adjustable dampers.

If a LSD is chosen, be careful as there are many varieties and they are not created equal in many ways. More reason to read that Taylor Racing Diff tutorial before leaping into any LSD.

I'm curious as to what the dyno numbers might be as there is a 1600cc motor being planned for the 74' in the future. My guess, some where in the 145 Bhp, about 130 fl/lb range which would be plenty for a street exxe.

:)
Bernice

lookforjoe said:
Thank you.

The Saab ECU will only work with the Saab Mass Meter - the one I bought had been dropped and the wire was broken - but I didn't catch it until long after the auction closed.

Good point though, I may invest in another AFM, as the Saab ECU I can remap :)

I didn't read your linked article yet. The issue I have is that I can break the left rear free easily even in dry pavement. Turns are worse. I was assuming OEM style clutch plate (at least that's what Volvo always supplied - my rear diff is this type ) style diff, as opposed to the Quaife (that I have in my Volvo front diff), or a Gripper.

Edit: I'll start with new tires - however if I do pull the trans again, I'll want a posi to go in :)
Click to expand...
 
HA! With my wife, she finds things "ugly-out" way...

before they actually "wear out" and starts harping on me to replace them.

Apparently Irv must be single...
 
One other inexpensive way to loose 200-300 rpm...

for cruising is to go up to a 205/60 rear tire.

I don't notice any real lack of performance in the lower gears, but do note a quieter cruise in 5th.
 
Difficult to find true performance tires in 13" except for R-compound.

Getting good performance tires for the exxe that are no R-compounds is difficult in 13". 14" not much better, 15" tiny bit better.


Bernice



Black-Tooth said:
for cruising is to go up to a 205/60 rear tire.

I don't notice any real lack of performance in the lower gears, but do note a quieter cruise in 5th.
Click to expand...
 
So far, two Saab MAF's and no joy. One used & one Bosch reman. Both had over 8V on the output signal line - should be under 2V.

EDIT - Saab LH2.2 MAF wiring is different than Volvo MAF wiring :(

Started looking around for other causes of the idle surge. In checking the timing, I noted that the idle stabilized when the timing light is actively pulsing (drawing power from the coil (15) terminal). So, I added a Volvo radio suppressor I had laying around from a 80's 740 (designed to attach to (15) terminal & ground), and that seems to have settled it. Not sure why adding a capacitor to the coil / feed wire stabilizes the system.

EDIT - the capacitor doesn't do the trick, leaving the timing light on does. Need to figure out what this is indicative of (need better field insulation/shielding?)

EDIT: MAF problem may be in the 514 ECU - the remanufacturer indicated that the high output voltage could be from the system stuck in burned mode - that would explain why the first MAF had a broken hotwire.
 
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Still no resolution to the idle surge. I've replaced all the (-) pulse wiring to the coil and from there to the power stage with shielded wiring, since it (the condition) seemed to alter if I moved the wiring around & the high tension leads are so close by.

Anyway, that wasn't it. What I have finally concluded is that the overall (current) load varies depending on whether I have my foot on the brake, engaging reverse, turning on the headlights, etc.
I can see the voltage drop on the meter, typically from 13.3-12.8v range (gauge displays less than voltage at the battery due to the wiring on the cluster). In any event, if I hold it in reverse, for instance, the voltage will drop and the idle will stabilize. Back in neutral idle surges. Step on brakes.... You get the idea.

What must be happening is that the voltage deviates enough that the signal to the IAC motor is deviating enough to cause it to set a high flow mode, which raises the voltage, which shuts down the IAC, and on and on. The condition only starts once the engine is warm, and operating in normal idle mode.

So, what I need to determine is how to stabilize the current / voltage delivered to the fuel and ignition systems.

I figure first step is to separate the switched power supply to the fuel relay, power stage and ign brain. Currently they all draw off the one wire that used to feed the original coil in the bay.

Hopefully that will fix it. At this point I'm not holding my breath.
 
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That is a good start. The k20a2 swap I separated ALL of the 12+ to the various components (F pump, ignition power, o2 heater, main circuit). I was having some strange voltage issues but found the problem being the stock wiring. I wen't through it all and I have found my power at the battery is like .15-.25 higher (average) than at the gauge which I think is pretty good. Different engines, etc of course but the same idea to move a lot of things to their own "private" 12+ power.

Good luck figuring it out...

lookforjoe said:
Still no resolution to the idle surge. I've replaced all the (-) pulse wiring to the coil and from there to the power stage with shielded wiring, since it (the condition) seemed to alter if I moved the wiring around & the high tension leads are so close by.

Anyway, that wasn't it. What I have finally concluded is that the overall (current) load varies depending on whether I have my foot on the brake, engaging reverse, turning on the headlights, etc.
I can see the voltage drop on the meter, typically from 13.3-12.8v range (gauge displays less than voltage at the battery due to the wiring on the cluster). In any event, if I hold it in reverse, for instance, the voltage will drop and the idle will stabilize. Back in neutral idle surges. Step on brakes.... You get the idea.

What must be happening is that the voltage deviates enough that the signal to the IAC motor is deviating enough to cause it to set a high flow mode, which raises the voltage, which shuts down the IAC, and on and on. The condition only starts once the engine is warm, and operating in normal idle mode.

So, what I need to determine is how to stabilize the current / voltage delivered to the fuel and ignition systems.

I figure first step is to separate the switched power supply to the fuel relay, power stage and ign brain. Currently they all draw off the one wire that used to feed the original coil in the bay.

Hopefully that will fix it. At this point I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Tim, good to know it's not just my luck ;)

Looking at the stock wiring last night (just found this pic in a search, tnks Budgetzagato :) ) - the coil feed is also switched power to a bunch of relays - definitely not a good source.

CcklIm.jpg

OAQWBc.jpg




I can start by moving the LH supply to the pnk/black wire that previously feed the dual relay (thnks BBrown for your reference pic).

FI_Install.jpg
 
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Voltage Regulator

How is the idle control valve being driven? I'm assuming that the ECU is applying a PWM signal to tell it how far to open, but is it sinking or sourcing the valve (i.e. dos the valve have a constant +12V and the ECU is grounding it via a PWM signal, or the other way around)?

Assuming the ECU is modulating the ground side of the idle control valve, you may consider running a voltage regulator on the supply side, e.g.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LM317-Adjustable-Voltage-Regulator-Step-down-Power-Supply-Module-LED-Meter-/310924042063

Note, that is just an example. What you select will be based on the load but the idea is an additional solid state regulator to provide a constant voltage to the device in question.

Dom.

lookforjoe said:
Anyway, that wasn't it. What I have finally concluded is that the overall (current) load varies depending on whether I have my foot on the brake, engaging reverse, turning on the headlights, etc.
Click to expand...
 
dcioccarelli said:
How is the idle control valve being driven? I'm assuming that the ECU is applying a PWM signal to tell it how far to open, but is it sinking or sourcing the valve (i.e. dos the valve have a constant +12V and the ECU is grounding it via a PWM signal, or the other way around)?

Assuming the ECU is modulating the ground side of the idle control valve, you may consider running a voltage regulator on the supply side, e.g.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LM317-A...n-Power-Supply-Module-LED-Meter-/310924042063

Note, that is just an example. What you select will be based on the load but the idea is an additional solid state regulator to provide a constant voltage to the device in question.

Dom.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dom.

The valve receives battery voltage, and grounds hi/lo.
That wouldn't address the root cause, though. If I can resolve it by stabilizing the voltage to the system as a whole, I will be happier. I was considering adding a 'buck boost' regulator for the switched supply side.
 
Moved the LH system feed (Relay, ECU) from the coil feed wire to the pnk/bl wire previously used for the dual relay.

Seemed great, until it was fully warm & problem was back. Now though, if I turn on the lights or step on the brakes, the idle surges instead of dropping. Voltage at the components (IAC, injectors, etc) is very close to vBat as I rewired my system so that the main supply to the injection system comes right off the battery cable at the starter instead of using the existing wiring.

For example, the voltage at the IAC is 13.9-14v when warming up, and even when warm, the voltage is still 13.7-13.8, vs the 13.2-13.4 I read at the coil.

So, I will separate the supply to the EZK module (currently fed in tandem from the coil/power stage via the stock pink coil feed wire) tomorrow & see where that goes.
 
Suggestion: PM the Emir of Electrons, Bob Brown....he probably will have a good idea and source for installing some sort of power conditioner gizmo that will be able to give your sensitive circuits the clean steady power that it looks like they want.
 
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