So, look what is on ebay... http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIAT-X1-9-1...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4acda0cf11&vxp=mtr
This looks like a very easy conversion.
This looks like a very easy conversion.
128 5 speed.
- Thread starter fastx19
- Start date
johosjokers
Daily Driver
ok but....if 4 speed boxes are stronger than 5 speeds, would it be worthwhile to find a 4 speed and convert it using the parts from my 5 speed?
Matt Brannon - Midwest Bayless
Mad.Matt
Don't know where to start with this....
This gearset is a dicey proposition. Putting mix and match components like this into an early 128 or X19 trans is a tough task for the un-initiated.
Given the 4.08 final drive of the pinion shaft that is included (Fiat X19), the 128 style 1st gear, the advisement that it works for X19 or 128, and the final kicker of "just use your existing 2nd - 4th gears" both of which are just wrong.
The pinion shaft is a 5-Spd style, so the nose of the shaft is larger diameter, requiring an alternate pinion bearing (4Spd and 5-Spd pinion bearings are different). Most USA 128s came with the 3.76 Ring and Pinion, so find another ring gear while you're at it.
X19 and 128 ratios changed repeatedly in the 4-Spd and 5-spd world. Nothing dramatic, but they loved to change the tooth count, and more insidious, tooth pitch on the cluster or layshaft gears for no fundamental reason.
Only 2nd gear stayed the same across all years. 1st gear was the next most consistent. 3-5th changed every other year for no apparent reason either in tooth count, tooth pitch or both!
Next comes the shifter select components. I assume they are for FWD Ritmo, but again, assume. Lot of potential headache there.
Yes, there are some fundamentally nice pieces here. But buyer beware, this is most certainly not a drop-in solution, and you will
need to have your engineering / details hat on to make it work.
Bottom line, just find an FI Yugo 5-Spd box for your 128, it will save a lot of headache.
-M
This gearset is a dicey proposition. Putting mix and match components like this into an early 128 or X19 trans is a tough task for the un-initiated.
Given the 4.08 final drive of the pinion shaft that is included (Fiat X19), the 128 style 1st gear, the advisement that it works for X19 or 128, and the final kicker of "just use your existing 2nd - 4th gears" both of which are just wrong.
The pinion shaft is a 5-Spd style, so the nose of the shaft is larger diameter, requiring an alternate pinion bearing (4Spd and 5-Spd pinion bearings are different). Most USA 128s came with the 3.76 Ring and Pinion, so find another ring gear while you're at it.
X19 and 128 ratios changed repeatedly in the 4-Spd and 5-spd world. Nothing dramatic, but they loved to change the tooth count, and more insidious, tooth pitch on the cluster or layshaft gears for no fundamental reason.
Only 2nd gear stayed the same across all years. 1st gear was the next most consistent. 3-5th changed every other year for no apparent reason either in tooth count, tooth pitch or both!
Next comes the shifter select components. I assume they are for FWD Ritmo, but again, assume. Lot of potential headache there.
Yes, there are some fundamentally nice pieces here. But buyer beware, this is most certainly not a drop-in solution, and you will
need to have your engineering / details hat on to make it work.
Bottom line, just find an FI Yugo 5-Spd box for your 128, it will save a lot of headache.
-M
Last edited:
yugoracing
True Classic
Hire complete like on photo can be take from used box -yugo for 150-200$ max - photo parts is from yugo.
17/64 for 4 or 5 gears for 100$....I can gave info where if some need to buy .
17/64 for 4 or 5 gears for 100$....I can gave info where if some need to buy .
Jeff Stich
True Classic
Yikes.
+1 on what Matt said.
Add to this the fact that the 5th gear extension housing shown will likely collide with the D/S front swaybar arm on a Fiat 128 Sedan/Wagon. So you'd need a 5-speed Zastava 101 front swaybar to use on your 128, or a custom swaybar or radius rod set-up. :2c:
Sellers outside the USA often fail to understand that Fiat changed gear ratios & pitches often on the USA 128 & X1/9 cars, while cars like the non-USA Yugo & Zastava were likely to carry a more uniform standard (so to them, "mix-&-match" is easier).
+1 on what Matt said.
Add to this the fact that the 5th gear extension housing shown will likely collide with the D/S front swaybar arm on a Fiat 128 Sedan/Wagon. So you'd need a 5-speed Zastava 101 front swaybar to use on your 128, or a custom swaybar or radius rod set-up. :2c:
Sellers outside the USA often fail to understand that Fiat changed gear ratios & pitches often on the USA 128 & X1/9 cars, while cars like the non-USA Yugo & Zastava were likely to carry a more uniform standard (so to them, "mix-&-match" is easier).
yugoracing
True Classic
Used ( sometime andnew ) swaybars 19mm for 5 gears is possible buy for 60-70 euro( zastava )
but is possible order 22mm custom for racing for cc150 euro? these was last year price
but is possible order 22mm custom for racing for cc150 euro? these was last year price
Matt Brannon - Midwest Bayless
Mad.Matt
Extension housing
Jeff, you and I are on the same page. A late, CV-style 5-spd extension will cause direct contact with an original 4-Spd sway bar. Even a Yugo 5-Spd case extension has to be massaged a bit and it's pretty close, but workable.
-M
Jeff, you and I are on the same page. A late, CV-style 5-spd extension will cause direct contact with an original 4-Spd sway bar. Even a Yugo 5-Spd case extension has to be massaged a bit and it's pretty close, but workable.
-M
Jeff Stich
True Classic
One minor note...
In re-reading this post, this minor detail stuck out to me. From my experience with owning, wrenching-on & junkyarding various 128's, as well as reading through various factory Fiat 128 Shop/Spec/Parts manuals, I've found most USA 128's (Sedans/Coupes) came with the 4.08 (13/53) ring & pinion, with the 128 Wagon models using a 4.42 (12/53) ring & pinion. It may be that very late-model USA 128's used the 3.76, I'm not sure, as I haven't come across many post-1976 128's & I don't have factory books for the last few model years.
I do know that USA Yugo 4-speed cars used the 3.76 ring & pinion, which is why I try to "rescue" junkyard Yugo transmissions if possible (nice upgrade for 128's). I recently installed one of these into my own 128 Wagon, & the 3.76 is a very different driving experience compared to the original 4.42.
The USA Yugo 5-speed reportedly also has a 3.76 ratio ring & pinion, but I can't remember if the nose of the 5-speed pinion shaft is the same diameter as (or larger than) the Yugo 4-speed pinion shaft, or whether they use the same size end-bearing unit. :hmm:
In re-reading this post, this minor detail stuck out to me. From my experience with owning, wrenching-on & junkyarding various 128's, as well as reading through various factory Fiat 128 Shop/Spec/Parts manuals, I've found most USA 128's (Sedans/Coupes) came with the 4.08 (13/53) ring & pinion, with the 128 Wagon models using a 4.42 (12/53) ring & pinion. It may be that very late-model USA 128's used the 3.76, I'm not sure, as I haven't come across many post-1976 128's & I don't have factory books for the last few model years.
I do know that USA Yugo 4-speed cars used the 3.76 ring & pinion, which is why I try to "rescue" junkyard Yugo transmissions if possible (nice upgrade for 128's). I recently installed one of these into my own 128 Wagon, & the 3.76 is a very different driving experience compared to the original 4.42.
The USA Yugo 5-speed reportedly also has a 3.76 ratio ring & pinion, but I can't remember if the nose of the 5-speed pinion shaft is the same diameter as (or larger than) the Yugo 4-speed pinion shaft, or whether they use the same size end-bearing unit. :hmm:
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
4 to five speed conversion, a few of the picture links have broken, but it should give you the basic idea. About to tackle another one soon, as the RPFCC will have a four/five gearbox, and use a 4.44 final drive from some european derivative.
Here in Australia five speed transmissions for X19 are quite difficult to find, and as most of our cars are four speeds, coversion (which requires axles / hubs / flywheel / clutch / starter motor etc) is an expensive proposition.
I use regata 85s transmissions (which is like a strada 65/75CL or Yugo five speed, as it has tripode style internal axle joints) and by using the 4 speed X19 half cases, fit the five speed internals, and retain the original axles/hubs/flywheel/clutch and starter...
http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4244
and if you look in the wiki I have listed all the gearbox bearings and sizes...
five speed input is the same spline as four speed... rear bearing is dimensionally the same, but the five speed is a split inner race to allow for easier assembly.
128 is the same deal... with the exception of the sway bar, and the bolts to hold the ext housing on to the main casing... M6 and not M8's ... so they need drilling and helicoiling
SteveC
Here in Australia five speed transmissions for X19 are quite difficult to find, and as most of our cars are four speeds, coversion (which requires axles / hubs / flywheel / clutch / starter motor etc) is an expensive proposition.
I use regata 85s transmissions (which is like a strada 65/75CL or Yugo five speed, as it has tripode style internal axle joints) and by using the 4 speed X19 half cases, fit the five speed internals, and retain the original axles/hubs/flywheel/clutch and starter...
http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4244
and if you look in the wiki I have listed all the gearbox bearings and sizes...
five speed input is the same spline as four speed... rear bearing is dimensionally the same, but the five speed is a split inner race to allow for easier assembly.
128 is the same deal... with the exception of the sway bar, and the bolts to hold the ext housing on to the main casing... M6 and not M8's ... so they need drilling and helicoiling
SteveC