My 850 ---Racer?
- Thread starter waynewlw
- Start date
Yo Wayne!
Nice to see you pop up on Xweb!
Feel free to email your pics to olerascal at hotmail dot com.
I can host & post 'em for you.
Nice to see you pop up on Xweb!
Feel free to email your pics to olerascal at hotmail dot com.
I can host & post 'em for you.
kmead
Old enough to know better
Wow that looks great!
Really nice metal work and a great collection of elements you have added.
The VW engine is pretty interesting, I see a toothed wheel for the electronic ignition system. I presume there are other goodies concealed within? Does it have a TBI injection system?
Feel free to offer up more details as it is a great looking car.
Really nice metal work and a great collection of elements you have added.
The VW engine is pretty interesting, I see a toothed wheel for the electronic ignition system. I presume there are other goodies concealed within? Does it have a TBI injection system?
Feel free to offer up more details as it is a great looking car.
850 Info
Thanks Mike for posting. I will try using Photobucket myself next time.
Yes, the engine and trans is VW. The VW pan has all the motor mount and suspension mounting brackets. Shortened the torsion bar tubes and axles so it fits under the X19 flares nicely. Welded the VW frame in place, the lower VW frame section goes up to the 850 'X' frame to add strength. Then the emergency brake cables, clutch cable, throttle cable, and heater control cable is just a matter of clamping cables together.
The engine is a Megasquirt controlled stock 75' VW fuel injection with a Ford EDIS.
As far as the body goes, I had a lot of 1300 stuff, so I added all I could. I didn't have all the Racer glass, so I built a new pillar behind the door glass which includes an air scoop that puts air in the engine bay. It may be hard to see, but I added a LED stop light in the centre, just above the rear window.
The Racer top was quite rusty, and had a few rusted through holes, so before it was welded in place I layed down a layer of fibreglass matt on the inside and out side. Then after It was welded in place the outside was covered with a layer of roll-on truck bed liner. It has a texture which is passable for me.
When I finish installing the new carpeting and reupholstered 1300 seats, I'll post more pictures showing the 'pick-a-part' sun visors and custom head liner.
Wayne
Thanks Mike for posting. I will try using Photobucket myself next time.
Yes, the engine and trans is VW. The VW pan has all the motor mount and suspension mounting brackets. Shortened the torsion bar tubes and axles so it fits under the X19 flares nicely. Welded the VW frame in place, the lower VW frame section goes up to the 850 'X' frame to add strength. Then the emergency brake cables, clutch cable, throttle cable, and heater control cable is just a matter of clamping cables together.
The engine is a Megasquirt controlled stock 75' VW fuel injection with a Ford EDIS.
As far as the body goes, I had a lot of 1300 stuff, so I added all I could. I didn't have all the Racer glass, so I built a new pillar behind the door glass which includes an air scoop that puts air in the engine bay. It may be hard to see, but I added a LED stop light in the centre, just above the rear window.
The Racer top was quite rusty, and had a few rusted through holes, so before it was welded in place I layed down a layer of fibreglass matt on the inside and out side. Then after It was welded in place the outside was covered with a layer of roll-on truck bed liner. It has a texture which is passable for me.
When I finish installing the new carpeting and reupholstered 1300 seats, I'll post more pictures showing the 'pick-a-part' sun visors and custom head liner.
Wayne
Jeff Stich
True Classic
Oh my...
Sorry, I just can't say anything positive on using those 1300X bumpers & turn signals. They just don't do anything good for the Racer body lines! Could've just used a couple 2x4's painted black with trailer lights on them for the same effect.
Why do the front wheels have so much positive camber?
Sorry, I just can't say anything positive on using those 1300X bumpers & turn signals. They just don't do anything good for the Racer body lines! Could've just used a couple 2x4's painted black with trailer lights on them for the same effect.
Why do the front wheels have so much positive camber?
Parking Light Too Big
Jeff,
I have to agree with you. Those front parking lights are really too big for that small 850 body. Do you have any suggestions for something smaller?
I am an old school hot-rodder and had a theme when I redid the 850---USE AS MUCH X19 STUFF AS YOU CAN, and black out all chrome. And it was a surprise how much X19 pieces fit on an 850. It turned out that the body contour matched both the front and rear 1300 bumpers. Stock 850 bumper brackets bolt right up to the X19 bumpers. The plastic covering for the bumper brackets fit right on. 1300 seats slide right in place. X19 arm rests look good. Window wiper motor is two speed and interchangeable with the 1300 motors, which allowed the use of a 1300 steering wheel assembly with the wiper control on the column. 1300 emergency brake assembly fits under 850 centre console. 1300 rear view mirror. Then all the body stuff I welded on from salvaged X19's.
I am serious, if you can think of a parking/turn light that is smaller, and has a left and right wiring exit, that mounts up underneath something, let me know, and I will look into it.
Wayne
Jeff,
I have to agree with you. Those front parking lights are really too big for that small 850 body. Do you have any suggestions for something smaller?
I am an old school hot-rodder and had a theme when I redid the 850---USE AS MUCH X19 STUFF AS YOU CAN, and black out all chrome. And it was a surprise how much X19 pieces fit on an 850. It turned out that the body contour matched both the front and rear 1300 bumpers. Stock 850 bumper brackets bolt right up to the X19 bumpers. The plastic covering for the bumper brackets fit right on. 1300 seats slide right in place. X19 arm rests look good. Window wiper motor is two speed and interchangeable with the 1300 motors, which allowed the use of a 1300 steering wheel assembly with the wiper control on the column. 1300 emergency brake assembly fits under 850 centre console. 1300 rear view mirror. Then all the body stuff I welded on from salvaged X19's.
I am serious, if you can think of a parking/turn light that is smaller, and has a left and right wiring exit, that mounts up underneath something, let me know, and I will look into it.
Wayne
Jeff Stich
True Classic
I think the width of each lamp housing is probably ok, but the height needs to be trimmed down to make them less visually obtrusive. Mentally dipping into the Fiat parts bin, I think maybe something like the front lamps used on the later European 850 Spider/Racer & 850 Sport Coupe? They are close in size to the original USA 850 Spider/Racer front lamps used on your car, but are slightly shorter in height (about 2/3). The lamp wiring is on the backside of the housing & exits to the side. Lenses come in either amber/orange color or clear/white. The Euro lights look like this:
Or...you could adapt a pair of the early USA 850 Spider front turn lamps (though they're often harder to find & pricey because they're also used on big-$$$ Alfa/Maserati/Lambo/etc. cars). These are much smaller in both width & height, & look like this when mounted on the car:
The lamp socket & wiring exit on top of the light, but all that's needed to mount them is to drill a hole on the underside of the bumper for the lamp socket to fit up into. The lamp housing can be held in place either using the stock mounting bracket or simply using the 2 holes already running vertically through the housing, with 2 long screws/bolts holding them to the bottom of the bumper. (I'll try to find photos of this lamp assembly/layout, it's hard to explain in writing).
I may still have an extra pair of the first lamps I mentioned, I'll have to look in the parts stash. Last I saw them, the chrome was pitted, but since you're opting for black that really doesn't matter, all you'd have to do is sand & paint 'em to suit your taste. I may also have some NOS lenses, if not, C. Obert &/or eBay.it has them in either color. My spare lamps look like this:
I may also have a pair of the early USA 850 Spider lamps, but I'm not sure if I want to sell those or not. If you have any parts removed from your Racer that you didn't use, I might be interested in a trade...I'm in need of the driver-side rear 1/4 glass, a driver-side interior door panel & a factory center console in good shape for my own 850 Racer. Got any of those? :excited:
Also thinking of aesthetics on the front of your car, I might suggest lowering the (horizontal) bumper level maybe an inch or so if possible, maybe bringing it closer to the same level as the factory body seam on the nose of the car (your bumper currently sits above this). This can be done using the original early-model bumper bracket bolt-holes in each frame rail, & some slight sheetmetal modification on the nose of the car.
Early 850 Spiders had the bumper mounted just slightly below the horizontal body seam on the nose of the car, that is, the bumper brackets exited through the body just below that seam, & held the bumper at a level where that body seam was directly behind it (picture the bumper blade being a "C" shape, with the bumper bracket protruding into the center/interior of the "C" & the body seam just above the bracket protruding into the upper interior part of the "C").
The later 850 Spider & the 850 Racer had their bumper height raised to meet USA Fed/DOT regulations, which was accomplished by Fiat simply welding a square-profile tube onto the top of each front "frame-rail" inside the trunk, cutting 2 new holes in the nose above the body seam & fitting the bumper brackets into these using the 2 original bolts (per side). The 2 new bracket pass-through ports (holes) were punched into the nose sheetmetal in front of & slightly above each framerail, so the bumper brackets can slide right into their "new" mounts. The horizontal nose body seam is now below the bumper brackets, with old/original 2 bumper bracket pass-through holes in the nose welded-up (ie: not factory-cut).
Providing that there's enough clearance between the backside of your X1/9 bumper blade & that body seam, you can lower your bumper height without modifying the current bracketry/mounting by simply cutting 2 new square holes (slots) in the nose below the body seam & directly in line with your current "later" pass-through holes, in order for the bumper brackets to pass through. If I remember correctly, the "old" mounting bracket bolt-holes are still there on each inboard-side of the frame rail inside the trunk. Here's where the old bolt holes should be:
lezesig1
expatriot
Hereya go Jeff
Hi Jeff,
In response to "...hard to explain in writing".
I have a pile of these Wayne. You are welcome to cobble a couple of them together. They WILL take extensive elbow grease on the bench to bring them back up to speed.
BUT...knowing you....you will find a pencil thin OPTIMAL replacement where others may not look
lezesig
'72 850Sp
Hi Jeff,
In response to "...hard to explain in writing".
I have a pile of these Wayne. You are welcome to cobble a couple of them together. They WILL take extensive elbow grease on the bench to bring them back up to speed.
BUT...knowing you....you will find a pencil thin OPTIMAL replacement where others may not look
lezesig
'72 850Sp
Big Tail Lights got to go
Hi Les and Jeff,
It looks like I will be looking for some smaller front tail lights. I do have a set of the original 850 lights, but they have about the same size lens. I am thinking: the smaller the better, and tucking them as close to the bumper I can.
The brackets for the early(lower) 850's bumpers are there. I thought about going lower, but did not want to make any more holes at that time.
Racer specific parts. Jeff, how do I tell a Racer Part. The only thing I think may be a Racer part is: 1) The panels that the instruments are mounted to; they are black and have a criss-cross pattern in them. 2) variable speed wiper motor and it's rheostat.
Thanks for the info
Wayne
Hi Les and Jeff,
It looks like I will be looking for some smaller front tail lights. I do have a set of the original 850 lights, but they have about the same size lens. I am thinking: the smaller the better, and tucking them as close to the bumper I can.
The brackets for the early(lower) 850's bumpers are there. I thought about going lower, but did not want to make any more holes at that time.
Racer specific parts. Jeff, how do I tell a Racer Part. The only thing I think may be a Racer part is: 1) The panels that the instruments are mounted to; they are black and have a criss-cross pattern in them. 2) variable speed wiper motor and it's rheostat.
Thanks for the info
Wayne
Jeff Stich
True Classic
Racer
What are "front tail lights"? :confuse2: (tail lights are at the rear of the car).
Yeah, that's why I didn't mention using the original Racer front lights, & why I noted the other 2 styles instead. I'm thinking the small early Spider front turn lights offered by lesezig1 would better suit your need here...
The good thing about cutting 2 new holes in the nose here is that they're small, simple to locate (straight down from the upper holes) & fairly hidden behind the bumper. The bad thing is that you would then need to patch/cover the now-vacated 2 holes above the body seam & touch up the paint to match. Not a big deal if you can weld (or braze) them yourself, then it's just a little Bondo skim & sanding/painting - a day or two's work. :wink2:
Racer-specific parts would be:
Steel hardtop & brightwork/trim (obviously)
Roll-up door window glass (L&R)
Rear 1/4-window glass (L&R)
Rear window glass
Interior upholstered panels (doors, rear-1/4's & rear seat back)
Dashboard pad & basketweave-pattern gauge/radio insert panels
Full-length floor-mounted center console
Seats
Carpeting
Lower door threshold alloy trim strips (engraved)
"racer" emblems (on hardtop C-pillars & interior door panels)
Fuel filler pipe & sheetmetal splash tray
Everything else on the Racer is pretty much the same as on the 1970-71 850 Spider (including the wiper motor & rheostat), with the fuel tank being shared with the 1970-71 850 Sport Coupe.
You had mentioned that your car was initially missing some glass, hence your need to fab up some panels to fit where the rear 1/4-windows would be. Were 1 or both windows gone? Do you have the driver-side 1/4-window?
What are "front tail lights"? :confuse2: (tail lights are at the rear of the car).
Yeah, that's why I didn't mention using the original Racer front lights, & why I noted the other 2 styles instead. I'm thinking the small early Spider front turn lights offered by lesezig1 would better suit your need here...
The good thing about cutting 2 new holes in the nose here is that they're small, simple to locate (straight down from the upper holes) & fairly hidden behind the bumper. The bad thing is that you would then need to patch/cover the now-vacated 2 holes above the body seam & touch up the paint to match. Not a big deal if you can weld (or braze) them yourself, then it's just a little Bondo skim & sanding/painting - a day or two's work. :wink2:
Racer-specific parts would be:
Steel hardtop & brightwork/trim (obviously)
Roll-up door window glass (L&R)
Rear 1/4-window glass (L&R)
Rear window glass
Interior upholstered panels (doors, rear-1/4's & rear seat back)
Dashboard pad & basketweave-pattern gauge/radio insert panels
Full-length floor-mounted center console
Seats
Carpeting
Lower door threshold alloy trim strips (engraved)
"racer" emblems (on hardtop C-pillars & interior door panels)
Fuel filler pipe & sheetmetal splash tray
Everything else on the Racer is pretty much the same as on the 1970-71 850 Spider (including the wiper motor & rheostat), with the fuel tank being shared with the 1970-71 850 Sport Coupe.
You had mentioned that your car was initially missing some glass, hence your need to fab up some panels to fit where the rear 1/4-windows would be. Were 1 or both windows gone? Do you have the driver-side 1/4-window?