MSRP of a 2017 Fiat X1/9?

Reading everyone’s restoration and maintenance experience here on xweb makes me think of all the money and many many long hours spent on our X1/9s. I think if you add up all the hours in labor (assuming you charge yourself labor) plus add all the cost of tools and parts one might find perhaps it might be best and more economical to simply go out and buy a brand new Alfa Romeo 4c. Dollar for dollar it would probably be identical. The stories also remind me of Cuba and how they make their own parts for their 1950’s cars. Even the X1/9 NOS and reproductions are not up to par because of age issues or non-original poor manufacturing issues. I love the X1/9. But there comes a time….

I was also recently at the MWB open house that Matt graciously hosted. I was expecting to see many beautifully restored X1/9s all in mint showroom condition. What I saw were nice X1/9s and many owners there worked very hard to restore their cars. I left unimpressed. Mostly because all the cars were OLD. While some had beautiful nice new $$$ paint jobs the interiors were all old and well worn. They all looked like tired old cars (except for the MWB track cars). I was more impressed with a brand new Fiat 500 there.


I used to own a 1994 Honda Accord which I bought brand new from the dealer. After 21 years and 300k miles it had a leaking head gasket (my fault as it overheated). I took it to several shops and they all told me they would not touch it because the engine was old and brittle and bolts would become damaged upon removal and insertion. Plus every time I fixed one thing, 2 or 3 other things would instantly spring up and break. I got rid of the car and bought a brand new one for the next 21 years ahead.

I wish someone would manufacture the X1/9 again from scratch and as a brand new car with brand new and improved parts. I know about airbag issues and such and also how the plant and equipment is long gone. It is still a beautiful enduring design and it could fitted with the 100Hp Fiat MultiAir engine and MSRP could be that of a base 2017 Fiat 500 of $16,995.

Just my thoughts from a 30+ year old new (to me) owner of a 1986 Bertone X1/9.

Manufacturers are only going to mass produce cars that they know will sell enough copies to make a profit on.

That being said, I wonder about the feasibility of using the Alfa 4C as a jumping off point for a new X1/9.

Instead of carbon fiber, the shell could be made of a mix of aluminum and high-strength steel to keep costs down while saving weight.

The layout would have to be midengine behind the passenger compartment.

The dimensions would have to be bigger to accommodate normal sized American drivers.

And the comfort, NVH, and fit/finish would have to be just like every other normal car, and NOT like the 4C.

And for Pete's sake, DO NOT fit the MultiAir engine! Regardless of the application, and regardless of turbo or no turbo, the automotive press is almost universal in their disdain for it. They hate the NA version in the 500, they barely tolerate it in the Abarth, and so far it's a disappointment in the new 124 Spider. How about a detuned or NA version of the 1.7 in the 4C?

For clarification, my idea is to keep the exact X1/9 current body design. But to perhaps make technological changes only to body materials and parts.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with the body design and body style that came out of Bertone. It still looks fresh.

Think about a body coming out of the legacy Bertone factory and having Honda (in place of Fiat) assemble the car? Perhaps using the modern 130Hp Honda Fit compact L series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_L_engine engine? Fit, finish and quality would be much improved. What about copyright?

You should look at the difference in cost from the contemporary Fiat equivalent either then 128 or the Strada to understand the cost difference of the X at the time.

At best, a modern X with the same motor and trans as the current 500, would likely MSRP between 26 and 30k.

I would certainly want one more than the Fiata

I do not think a new X1/9 would meet current safety requirements. I am not certain of this, but I have heard that the popularity of SUVs and pick up trucks resulted in legislation that changed the side impact requirements for cars. This is why we see new cars with high side sheet metal and smaller windows, changes that make side impacts survivable when the tall bumper of an SUV meets the side door of a smaller (and lower) car. Like I said, I am not certain so perhaps someone else can shed some light on this.

As well, for many of us on this forum restoring the car is half the fun. It's not just owning and driving the car, it's the skinned knuckles and dirty finger nails that is a big part of the X1/9 experience (or maybe it's just me).:wacko:

If you keep it the same, it won't sell, therefore it won't be made.

It's too small inside....in fact it was too small inside in 1972 when it was released.

The design would have to be changed to accommodate larger wheels and tires; modern handling demands a much larger contact patch.

simpler times.

It's a time machine that keeps us locked back when it was not so crazy in the world.
Not me for sure on a new X1/9. It would not be the same in any way.
You're still dreaming on that sticker price as well.

Just buy a Miata and call it a day.

Restoring Interior

I think the issues you are talking about when dealing with X 1/9s is that unlike other old or classic cars, X 1/9 owners don't tend to restore the interiors to mint. There are many reasons for this. The first would be that most X 1/9 owners like to drive their Xs quite a bit. The X is such a fun car to drive that it is a shame to let one sit in a garage all the time to keep it showroom quality. The second is that there is no recoupment of value in making an X mint condition. The time and/or money involved in restoring a 30+ year old car to better than new condition is very high. X 1/9s aren't worth a whole lot even in mint condition. Short of a few extremely low mile examples, even the nicest of X 1/9s sell for less than 8 grand. Third point is that there isn't a lot of aftermarket support for restoring the interior of an X 1/9. When I did my car, I had to have custom seat cushions made and leather cut and molded for my seats. A lot of other classic cars, particularly American classic cars have a ton of aftermarket support for both interior and exterior. That being said, I did restore my interior and I think it looks better than it did when it was new. It was a labor of love for me and I definitely feel it was worth the money.

Well, there are no inexpensively priced mid engine 2 seat sports cars anymore. So the market to bring the X1/9 back now is there. For God's sake they even came out with that Smart Car.

Do we know if Both Fiat and Bertone was making a ton of money selling the X1/9? Why did Toyota (MR2) and Pontiac (Fiero) both enter the market? Makes me think they were making a big profit.

Never say never.

Let's see how the new 124 does with sales.
at least the Fiat brand director mentioned the X1/9 in a Q&A last year after the 124 announcement.
If it does ever happen in our lifetime it is going to cost closer to $30k.
Take a look at what basic Jeep Wranglers now cost and we are talking no frills with sheet metal & plastic ..just sayin'.

Why did you choose to bring back the 124 Spider? You could just as easily have chosen the X1/9, couldn’t you?

That’s funny, because we did indeed consider the X1/9. It’s another classic Fiat, and it offers the open-top experience as well, of course. But we decided that the brand equity was a bit stronger with the 124.

Click to expand...

You've posted this opinion before

"DO NOT fit the MultiAir engine! Regardless of the application, and regardless of turbo or no turbo, the automotive press is almost universal in their disdain for it. They hate the NA version in the 500, they barely tolerate it in the Abarth, and so far it's a disappointment in the new 124 Spider."

I read all the auto press I can get my hands on and what you've said there is absolute rubbish.

Not Sure What You Are Disagreeing With....

Are you disagreeing with my perception/understanding of what the automotive press is reporting, or are you disagreeing with the opinion that the MultiAir engine is a disappointment?

All this talk about making a "new x1/9" is why most modern reboot vehicles blow more then a room full of hooker at carrying on a name sake. They do nothing to stir the soul that the originals could. Its that emotion or unintended success or that huge bang for the buck which is why they became "classic". This is not to say that the modern versions are not good at being cars or fast. They are just as good at being cars as any other overly regulated, cookie cutter, movable appliance out there. Its all about manufactures who have become so stricken by legislation and crash tests and lack of housing for the polar bears, that they have zero ability to creat or inovate. They certainly can not afford to "take a chance" on new names when it comes to their best selling or "performance" models. They use names like "Boss", "Hemi", "challenger", "cobra" etc etc etc or how about "500" (Fiat) in a poor attemp to make lightning strike twice and give the market a false sense of liniage, collectability and value. Please Fiat/Abarth create an economical, fun, inexpensive and midengined roadster but DO NOT tarnish or use the X1/9 designation on a vehicle that will inevitablly pale in comparison to the original. Ok blood pressure back to stabke, gonna go drink a beer PS wheres tbe spell check function

"at least the Fiat brand director mentioned the X1/9 in a Q&A last year after the 124 announcement."

What did he say?

The quote in the quote box.

RJH said:

"at least the Fiat brand director mentioned the X1/9 in a Q&A last year after the 124 announcement."

What did he say?

Click to expand...

The quote in the quote box is from the Fiat d00d. So not exactly a lengthy dialog on the X possibilities.

Ya know RJ... reading through your thoughts here...

reminds me of a quote I believe first made famous by those who rode V-Twin Harleys.

"If I haveta explain it to ya, you [still] wouldn't understand."

A hint into what makes most of us tick here... Built, Bought, or Restored. Your choice, just don't confuse them. I care for at least one of each.

Actually, all of that

As I plainly said (I thought), I read nearly all of the automotive press and the worst that I can recall being said about it is that it is low HP. Yes, compared to most modern engines, that much is true. But they don't fault Fiat's version of vvt. Pros outnumber the Cons. And as the owner of a 2012 Abarth purchased in early May of that year, I've had zero issues and find the engine responsive, to have good grunt at the low end and a wide power band. And for you to even include what you did about the new 124 Spider after the praise I've read... it makes me wonder where you read this tripe.

Regards,

:hrmph:

Don't care much for Harleys. Dated American technology, noisy and overpriced. There are much better options out there like Ducati.

ZING!!! Well, neither do I but have you watched...

any NHRA Pro-Bike racing lately?

I am AMAZED that the V-Twin push-rod engines are extremely competitive and winning over the high-tech designs from Japan.

Close to 200 mph in 6.5 seconds... crazy! A real David and Goliath contest.

But regardless, hopefully you got my point... and if you didn't, then there ya go! HA!

I am with Papa Tony 100%

Your assumption of the superiority or promotion of technology over all designs tried and true is misplaced, and the thing that will get you in the end... innuendo intended! While you are all reved up over all this new tech stuff you seem to miss what is really happening. Manufacturers aren't doing all this improvement just to satisfy your desire to go faster. The cost and arguably the result is a power plant that has you going to the same manufacturer (at great cost or not at all, their call not yours) to improve anything. I just disassembled the manifolds with all sorts of problems and the car still ran pretty solid... I could snip one of I am sure many little wires on your new engine and you are pushing a tow truck to the dealer... read an article that stated 2015, according to AAA, greatest number of road calls. Reason? Tech... dead batteries, flat tires(no spare on many new cars) and running out of gas. My wife's Forester may indicate 50 mile of range left but not if I am heading to Western NC and straight up driving. I have three complete 1500 engines waiting to go into service and if they all last as long as the one currently in my 79 that is about 120 years of driving... you can keep or have your new tech. I am driving an X1/9 until they stop selling gas...
Regards