Can not select any gears.

lanciahf

True Classic
Hi all,

Sorry Carl did not mean to copy your problem from a month ago. I can select gears when the motor is off but when its running its very hard. I mean really hard. If I put the trans in gear and start the car then I can let the clutch out and all is well for that gear.

The Scorp has a VX tranny, New Fiat 124 Clutch with a Beta 1800 release bearing. I have have a good clutch pedal and confirmed the clutch arm is moving. New shifter bushings. Not sure where to start?

Thanks
 
On an X, the accepted amount of throw for the clutch operating arm is 1" to 1-1/4", and the throw is pretty much limited at the far end by the arm hitting the fins on the bell housing.

Is there an equivalent on the Scorpion?

And you know we luv :love: pix, can you post some?

I was reading on an old Lancia forum post that the VX trans is a fit with the FIAT 124 clutch but you have to use the Scorpion throwout bearing, or at least the 124 bearing mounted in the Scorpio carrier. Was curious if "clutch" mean the clutch plate, pressure plate, or both.....and there was no mention of whether flywheels were interchangeable.
 
I can't fix the problem but

I have a Scorpion transmission in the for sale section, I'll let you have it, the flywheel and clutch for $150 plus shipping. Odometer says 28,478 miles on it. Just sayin...

Regardless I hope it works out for you.

-Christopher
 
Hi Dan,

The clutch slave looks like it is giving the arm plenty of push. A bit over an inch. While the car was idling and my son in the car trying to select first gear. I used a pry bar to lever the clutch further. I got maybe a 1/4 more movement but that did not help any. On the scorpion there is a timig port and I can actually see the pressure plate moving that allows a gap to form around the clutch disc. A small gap but its there.

I'm kinda resigned to taking the tranny off. I have a brand new valeo fiat spider clutch with a Scorpion release bearing. I saved my old release bearing and hopefully there will be an obvious difference. Now I just need to find motivation to take the car apart AGAIN.

Pretty sure the flywheels are the same.

On an X, the accepted amount of throw for the clutch operating arm is 1" to 1-1/4", and the throw is pretty much limited at the far end by the arm hitting the fins on the bell housing.

Is there an equivalent on the Scorpion?

And you know we luv :love: pix, can you post some?

I was reading on an old Lancia forum post that the VX trans is a fit with the FIAT 124 clutch but you have to use the Scorpion throwout bearing, or at least the 124 bearing mounted in the Scorpio carrier. Was curious if "clutch" mean the clutch plate, pressure plate, or both.....and there was no mention of whether flywheels were interchangeable.
 
And so out comes the transmission...

If you are getting full throw on it, but it is not letting you engage, then your problem is probably in the assembly somewhere, such as the clutch on backwards, or something else weird.

Here is another option. with the car off, put the car in gear, press in the clutch and try to start it. In theory, the starter should try and push the car forward because you are unable to release the clutch properly.

Let us know what happens.

and yes, I have been down this road many times. One time I had to take the transmission out of the car at least four times in one week. First time, had a problem with the alignment (clutch, pressureplate, etc) Next forgot the throwout bearing. Duh. Third, realized the reverse idle gear was on backwards, which basically locks up 1st and 2nd.. however 3rd and 4th worked... haha... Good time, good times people.
 
Has there been any resurfacing of the flywheel?

Is there a correct orientation of the clutch plate for this application? For the X1/9, it is possible to install the clutch plate facing the wrong side.

Same with the throwout bearing, is it possible to install facing the wrong direction?

PS---I guess we're yanking the trans on Sunday after breakfast? I'll bring my work clothes and shoes :)
 
A fellow Scorpion owner offered this advice..... Sounds counter intuitive but it is easy enough to test.
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I recently did a clutch on my Turbo Scorpion with some aftermarket parts.

I had similar issues. I swore the more travel (adjustment) I gave the clutch the worse it would act. I figured since it was a hydraulic unit there shouldn't even have been adjustment needed in the length of the actuator rod, but I kept adjusting. At one point I heard some noise, good or bad at least I knew the rod adjustment was making some sort of difference in the travel of the arm.

So, after getting pissed off enough to say f*ck-it and take the rod all the way back to its shortest setting in hopes of finding a happy place - i found it. You would think that shortening the adjustment rod would have the opposite affect I was looking for, but it was actually going in the right direction.

After backing off what I thought was an absolute ridiculous amount of travel the clutch began to function flawlessly.

The dimensions of the non standard parts were different enough to actually push the range of motion of the actuator arm past center and began to bind.

Im thinking pretty strongly that you are having the same issue...

BTW - very easy to try it anyway
 
I took the Scorpion to our monthly breakfast figuring it was mostly highway driving and minimal shifting. And as my friend told me "shifting is over rated" After breakfast a fellow Fiat buddy, Dan Sarandrea followed me home and helped me troubleshoot my shifting problem.

We pretty much ruled out any external problem. We re-adjusted the shift linkage per the shop manual and with the car not running it shifts great. No change with the car running. While the engine is running and I shift into gear the car moves a little. So I think the clutch is the main culprit I just do not know how it is.

Also I did not mention that the flywheel was lightened and resurfaced. Could this cause a problem?

In two weeks is our world famous covered bridge tour, I'll take the tranny out after that and report back.

Thanks All for helping,
Ralph

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The flywheel could be a problem if it is a stepped flywheel, meaning that the plane of the clutch friction surface is different from the plane of the clutch cover-to-flywheel mounting points.

With a stepped flywheel the machine shop has to resurface not only the friction surface, but the also have to remove material from the clutch cover (pressure plate) mounting points an equal amount to maintain the correct offset.

If they don't do it, the clutch will not grip properly and slip (the opposite of what you think your Scorp might have). If they do it and take the mounting pads down too much, the clutch will drag and never fully release, which is what you think you might have.
 
Hi All,
I wanted to post an update to my problem. Since the symptoms pointed to a clutch problem I decided to remove the trans. With the help of a Harbor freight tranny jack it was pretty simple just a lot of unbolting.

After verifying the clutch disk was installed correctly and the throw out bearing was the same as my old one, I removed the clutch and flywheel. The reason why I took the flywheel off was to measure the step. According to Danny at F.U.N. I should have around 20 thousands step. I had two other flywheels to compare the step and it was about the same. The flywheel that was in there was lightened by Millers Mule, he has done a coupe for me in the past so I trust his work. I did notice the lightened flywheel was thinner by about a 1 mm or more, hard to tell with my measurement tools. Scott a good friend let me have a clutch pressure plate and disc to compare. The kit was not OEM, made by a company called C.O.M.E. Compared to my Valeo OEM clutch the C.O.M.E. kit was much lighter with smaller springs.

So with no clear reason why my clutch was not disengaging I put in my used thicker flywheel and aftermarket clutch kit. Right away I noticed I had many more threads available at the clutch slave cylinder adjusting rod before the throw out bearing touched the clutch pressure plate. Maybe this flywheel held the clutch closer to the trans? I started the car today and I was able to select all the gears while the engine was running. I really wanted to put the valeo OEM clutch back in with the stock flywheel. But I was not 100% sure it was the flywheel and did not feel like doing the job twice.
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