Quality control: Later (Bertone) vs. Early (FIAT)

Hey Folks,

Back in the day I owned a '76 X and am always "sort of" looking to buy another. I'd actually prefer an earlier carb'd model that I could more easily hotrod (again) with dual Webers, stroker, etc. However, the few nice ones I see for sale are usually Bertones. I wouldn't necessarily rule out a FI version and just be satisfied to make a few basic improvements such as a cam, head work, a bump in CR, etc.

How much better is the quality of the later Bertone models compared to the earlier FIAT X's? If they were substantially improved, in what ways? Do they feel like a much more "expensive" car in the way they drive?

Also, A/C and other "luxury" features are not important (or desirable) to me; what model years should I be looking for?

Thanks!

Larry

People say

Well, some people say that the later cars were the best overall car. I have owned and driven a 78, 79, 80, 85 and 86 X. I had 75 and 77 parts cars, so those don't really count. The later cars definitely have a more "modern" feel compared to the 78, the later interior is much more useful. However, I really like the 78 because it feels less confined IMHO.

So it is really a matter of personal taste and what car you can find in good shape. The mechanicals can be transferred between model years with various amounts of work required. I am in the process of replacing the 1300/carb in my 78 with a 1500/FI. There is no reason that you can't strip the FI from a late model X 1500 and replace it with dual carbs. It has been done before.

1983, in my opinion....

1983 was the best year for quality on the X19s in my opinion, and even that is a very subtle nod. The build quality went down as the Bertone years stretched on.

But all years were susceptible to a problem build depending on what mood Guido and Guiseppe were in on the assembly line that day.

So why 1983?

• They were still using sheet metal purchased on behalf of Fiat. While everyone jokes about the quality of Fiat sheet metal, the Fiat-spec stuff for 82 and earlier was in-fact superior to the later stuff fitted on 84-on cars. This is why it is common to see 85 and later cars with rust in very odd places, like the top of the door skin, high on the door jambs, etc.
  
• An overall attention to build detail in the first year of full production by Bertone, which was waning at the end of the Fiat years, and waned in again in the late Bertone years. Some have heard me tell the story of our building the blue race car from a 1981 shell. When we cut the fenders off and removed the undercoating and seam sealer from the body shell, we got nearly 4 lbs of seam sealer material from the left side, and about 20 ounces from the right side!
  
• Simplicity of the FI electricals over any earlier smogged car...

Fortunately, nothing was short-cut or quality-cut from a mechanical perspective as the build run progressed, so things like engine components, clutch and brake, hubs, uprights, control arms, bearings and CVs, etc. all stayed the same, from the same makers. There is no difference there.

Larry welcome, or welcome back...

I see you live at the State Institution for the Mentally Challenged in Camarillo and your desire to obtain another X1/9, if known by the white-jacketed personnel there... will not get you out any time soon...

One other factor that can make life for you easier with all the engine mods you want... for a street driven car... is that the '75 and earlier cars are exempt from smog testing. Anything later will require some additional efforts to get them to "pass"...

HEY... SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY... if you can get a pass or can convince the "assistants" there... have them bring you and a van-load of other nut-so's down to Woodley Park in Van Nuys... for the Best of France and Italy show. Its free and we'd like to meet you...

30-40 years later I'd be more concerened about previous owner quality and what State that particular X has lived most of its life.
Life is short get an X and start driving it..:italia:

Having owned three X's: a '75 bought new and sold with 75,000 on the odometer; a '78 bought used with 24,000 miles and put over 120,000 miles on it before it became a lawn planter and my current '87 Bertone "hybrid" (a 1300 carbureted motor) which I put 65,000 miles on, I may have a few insights.

I never owned a fuel injected car, so I have not had any experience with it, but I have learned to live with the Weber and be happy. It's been my experience with Webers that after a 100k miles, you are better off with replacing with new/rebuilt ones.

As far as bodies are concerned, I have had very good luck with all three cars. I just had some minor rust repair and a repaint on my Bertone and it looks as good as new. I never had any body issues with my 75 & 78 and both were my daily drivers all year long (in New England).

In the interior, the seats were the biggest issue as all my driver seats looked like hell after 10k miles or so. This is no surprise to any Fiat owner...

All in all, I have been very fortunate not to have any transmission failures or for that matter I never replaced a clutch on any X I owned.

All in all I have had very few major issues with any of my Fiats, but there is a cravat: As anyone who owns one knows, or will learn, listen to your car. It will tell you something is about to go wrong. Give it the immediate attention it needs and you will put a lot of miles on any year Fiat.

my $0.02 and I'm sticking to it!

I recently picked up a low mileage 86 Bertone and the build quality is much much higher than my Scorpion. However, I have noticed a couple of little things, like the arrows on the power window buttons go the same direction on the passenger side. The door glass hits the rubber trim on the roof and a bunch of other random stuff...

So far I love the little car!

Ed

ecohen2 said:

I recently picked up a low mileage 86 Bertone and the build quality is much much higher than my Scorpion. However, I have noticed a couple of little things, like the arrows on the power window buttons go the same direction on the passenger side. The door glass hits the rubber trim on the roof and a bunch of other random stuff...

So far I love the little car!

Ed

Click to expand...

Ed,

The window switches are removal and can be replaced upside down to have the arrows go correctly.

Behind the door light there is a threaded screw with a rubber top to stop the window in the correct position. If the rubber is the gone the window goes to high. To fix remove the light and lower the window until the screw is in the opening. Either build up the head of the screw with some tape of thread it a little taller.

I own 2 87 and an 86 X1/9. I like the newer ones. I feel the seats are more comfortable.

Ed... Welcome and... Ya know if YOU just got the car...

then it MIGHT not have been the manufacturer that made the goofs...

More than likely, it was one or more of the PO's...

Let us know if we can be any help and welcome again!

My fave years for this Bertone is 81' to 83'

Early 1300cc cars like the 74' have early production and design problems (none that cannot be addresses properly), but are lower weight and true to it's original design.


Bernice