X19 picture

He has autocrossed it Mike...

Than took me for a ride in the hills and I was the one pleading for mercy!

On a side note... sometime in the early millennium... I had two '79 X1/9's and the White one was a ROCKET for some reason or another. I asked if he would come over and drive White Fang to Anaheim and I would drive Black Tooth. We did, he did, had a great time with some folks visiting from Oregon... and several "Test Drove" White Fang around the block.

My son said it was really getting late so he was gonna just drive White Fang home and then make arrangements to swap cars again in a day or so.

TWO WEEKS LATER I called to ask when I was getting my car back and he said he was having TOO MUCH FUN with White Fang.

Alas, a few days later he called on his cell phone to say the LF wheel had come off at 70 mph, jammed under the fender tearing half of the sheet metal off... but he was still able to steer it over to the right and out of traffic. I called AAA to tow the car home... bolted on the wheel, tore off the rest of the fender, and drove it 25 miles home.

More on the fender replacement another time... but what really bothered me was that I was the last one to bolt that wheel on the car. We and he musta driven it several hundred miles since then. What a life!

Been there, and still there myself, Ian...

And some folks think that God doesn't have a sense of humor!

Yeah still believe your nephew is right

You certainly can look at it from different angles and create a perspective but I am basing my comment in that I have both cars and have tracked both cars and have first hand experience.

So here is the actual math between the two:
X1/9, 1900lb (I have a light one) * 120hp crank = 0.063 hp/lb (139hp/metric ton)
STI (2015), 3419lb * 300hp crank = 0.088 hp/lb (193hp/hp metric ton)

So yes there is an advantage but not at the margin you described. Yes I have 120hp (or likely a little less) at the crank but that is a real number and is consistent with what I have personally observed with a racing 1500 SOHC engine so I will stick with it as my reference. It is also consistent on my experience comparing both cars, did I mention I have both cars?

I think you are overlooking the entire package of the Subaru. Base architecture of the mid engine design is excellent but comparing these two the Subaru has a complex torque vectoring differential system and puts the power down where it is needed. Out of the box it understeers but it still is not too bad and I can hold my own with it. A couple of speed parts or possibly a rear toe adjustment the understeer can be dialed out and really make it fly through the turns making it even more of a beast.

On the track the X1/9 is a blast to drive and is quite fun but for going fast but the Suby can be tossed around so much more and will pull itself out of a turn. The X is all about momentum and trying to carry the speed vs slamming it down and muscling it through a turn which you can do with the Suby.

Three seconds may not seem like much but it seems alot from my perspective especially for this track - 1.5miles. There is more left in the Suby than what I was wringing it out of it from the video you can see I am overdriving it a bit.

I have had two Subys and three X 1/9s I have tracked both Subys and two of the Xs so yeah from my experience your Nephew is right.

One last point you need ask yourself, are you going fast or feel like you are going fast? My 74 was a total riot and man you would swear you were the fastest car around but in reality the car was not so fast. At low speeds it would get skiddish and you could toss it about but in no time the limits of the car would be reached and would soon be passed by a common civic or golf.

By the way did I forget to mention I have both cars and have taken them to the track? :wink2: Sorry but I could not resist.

I prefer a slightly modified X...



Or maybe this:



No tire roll, but a whole lotta sh!ttin' and gittin'...

Steve, mate........!!

fiatfactory said:

......Lawso, I'l shoot you a PM with some contact details, and sure I'll catch up for an ale or two and maybe for a treat for yousee if I can take you on a guided tour of my Dad's workshop an car collection...if you can handle a non X19 ride around the city that is... in my Punto........

Click to expand...

....it's a done deal!!!!! :thumbsup:
I'm planning on being in Perth 15th - 30th Sept. (will be staying at my bro's place in Dianella).

Well actually... an X19 that I built, 2.0 twin cam and turbo powered, is owned by a fellow who also has a very fast STi....he has tracked both, and around our local circuit his subie is approx 1.09... and the X is about 7 seconds faster....and yes I've had a drive of both cars.

To me the X19 is more stable and easier to drive, but I've set the car up with superb brakes and suspension. Unfortunately my wife found a lump in her breast when it came time for me to engineer the powerplant (although I did the installation) so the engine isn't one of mine, and I wouldn't want to guess it's power figures, and my development with that car as forced to stop around 2005/6 due to work and family commitments...

Gordon's subaru is full STi spec with extras, around 300 at the treads. He has also won maybe a dozen state titles across various sedan classes, and can drive the wheels of anything...which is why my dad gave him prepared drives for almost 20 years in his Alfa GTAm, Fiat 131 Abarths, Fiat Uno Turbo's at the local track (where the state titles were won) and we even trucked a car half way across the continent in 1987 to compete at Australia's great race, at Mt Panorama... so Gordon (at that time) was a nationally classified driver with CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motor Sport)

So I have compared both cars personally also.

if your interested here a link to that X19's development...http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=759

My original point was that an X19 (completely standard) on the same contemporary tyres, is capable of generating more mechanical grip than a standard subaru on the same rubber.. and I think the numbers will prove this...what's R&T's G figure for a completely stock run of the mill standard subaru?

SteveC