shifting, what are the numbers?

B

BellaMacchina

1976 Fiat X1/9
I just read on this forum on another thread someone shifting 7000rpm without issue.

I am compelled at this notion. And started feeling conservative about my shifts that are usually around 3-4000.

So I went out and tried shifting around 4500 rpm. The overall experience was pleasant, the car was even funner, more fun, even, and I had what can be considered as a silly grin on my face...

So can I really shift this puppy around 5000rpm with regularity and have not too much cause for concern that the engine will self combust into little pieces?

I noticed during my little test today the car was very responsive, shifted beautifully and...almost seemed to like it as much as me and maybe a bit more...

Are there published numbers for a 1300cc engine without emissions? Can anyone give me an estimate where the torque starts to max out at what rpm?

My enthusiasm for this car has increased, even more today!

5000rpm = :excited::excited::excited::headbang::headbang:
 
shifting at 3000 rpm?

I'm not even sure how this is possible. X 1/9s don't have that much power below 3000 rpm. You certainly couldn't get on a highway on ramp without revving well past 4000 rpm. I am a very spirited driver and I shift around 6000 rpm or higher frequently. I have put upwards of 500,000 miles on my various X 1/9s without having any engine failure due to revving. The only thing that has caused me any serious problems with an X engine has been allowing it to overheat.

My 1987 X 1/9's transmission shifter linkage broke inside the transmission and the transmission got stuck in third gear. It was near the end of the semester so I didn't have time to pull the tranny and fix it and my X 1/9 was my only transportation at the time. So I drove it for 2 months using only third gear. Starting off in third gear took some practice but was possible. At highway speeds the engine was redlining and I would keep it redlining for my 1/2 hour drive home. Even after two months of that kind of abuse the engine was fine.
 
I have not taken the car on the highway yet, obviously because I am not driving it properly.

It is very exciting to me that I have been under driving the car.

Wow, your story about third gear is amazing.

LOL I can't wait to drive my car again...perhaps I will go for a cruise now!

M
 
I regularly shift at the redline. I have put 250+k miles between the x's I have used for regular transportation. No issues.

From the 1973 R&T x test
The quoted output for the European version of the X1/9 ’s engine is the same as for the 128 Coupe SL 1300 at 75 hp DIN, but it is developed at a lower engine speed of 6000 rpm (versus 6600) and the torque figure is 71 lb-ft at 3400 rpm compared to 68 at 3600.

This suggests that the US version could have slightly more power than the 51-hp net of the 128 Coupe and that the acceleration should be similar. Our test 128 Coupe reached 60 mph in 15.2 seconds and the quarter-mile in 20.5. Maximum speed should be significantly improved, however, with better penetration and lower frontal area in addition to an overall fourth-gear ratio of 3.91:1 (4.08 final drive ratio x 0.96) compared to 4.25:1 (4.08 x 1.04) for the Coupe. The mph/1000 rpm figure is thus 17.4 versus 14.9, and if the X1/9 will pull 6000 rpm in fourth in its US form, then it could reach a 98-mph top speed. The US version of the 128 Coupe, on the other hand, is limited by its boxiness and frontal area to an 88-mph maximum.
Click to expand...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/archive-dive-1973-fiat-x19
 
Shifted at 7000 yesterday in my 1300

Had a chance to rev it out on the way home and ran it up to 7000 in the first 3 gears. Then I shifted into 4th, settled on (around) the speed limit and it just purred all the way home. I may have purred a little too.

I would say a regular dose of 6000rpm is good for these engines, just tell yourself "I'm blowing out the gunk.".

Cheers,

Rob
 
Tested out this revolutionary, to me, way of driving the X tonight.

Did not approach 7000 rpm, but once the engine was warm, I shifted mostly at 5-6000 rpm...woooohooooo! I am on top of the traffic again!!!!!!!

The engine stayed at operating temperature, the shifting all made sense, very smooth transitions from gear to gear.

This car apparently likes to be opened up!

This really changes what I have thought driving an X was all about!

I am just wasting so much gas....and loving it!
 
If the engine, gear box and the rest of the mechanicals are in good condition there is little to no reason why using redline as the shift point would be a problem. Oh, keep it floored up to redline. Not gonna hurt the engine. The more this Fiat engine is driven this way, the happier it will be.

Been driving this Fiat SOHC engine this way for decades.. they hold up just fine.. Do this year after year and one's belief and ideas about Fiat engines might change as they have less problems when driven this way.

AKA, Italian Tune-Up...


Bernice


BellaMacchina said:
Tested out this revolutionary, to me, way of driving the X tonight.

Did not approach 7000 rpm, but once the engine was warm, I shifted mostly at 5-6000 rpm...woooohooooo! I am on top of the traffic again!!!!!!!

The engine stayed at operating temperature, the shifting all made sense, very smooth transitions from gear to gear.

This car apparently likes to be opened up!

This really changes what I have thought driving an X was all about!

I am just wasting so much gas....and loving it!
Click to expand...
 
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The feeling, the sound of driving a rev happy 1300 this way is a real buzz :)
And one of the reasons I love this little car.
 
THe 1300 only has a 2 inch stroke so ya it does love to rev...doenst hurt it to rev it out once in a while... i mean not something id be doing every drive every shift kinda thing, but meh
 
All of my manual transmission cars are shifted at or above 4000rpm on every shift,at least through the first three gears. Regular runs up towards the redline each day are pretty normal. They are designed for that kind of use and they definitely run better when they are properly used.

Even my Toyoleta minivan kisses its redline periodically since you can Manu-Matic its shifter. It's surprisingly fast for its size and weight
 
Why then….

do manufacturers of most modern cars (e.g.., my MR2 spider) recommend such low shift points? On the toyota, my owners manual advises me to shift at speeds that have me making shifts below 2500 (6th gear by 45 mph). Always seemed ridiculous to me, and I generally rev higher, but have worried that I'm doing harm. Sounds like not. I'll make a point of running my X's to the red line from time to time, but will likely keep my shifts in the 4K range unless others can give me a specific reason to be more aggressive.
 
Na, 1300cc, 74'

Gets revved to red line and above each time is is driven.. no exceptions. That Fiat engine gets flogged for all it can produce every time it is driven.

Been doing this for about 30 years of exxe ownership between 1300cc & 1500cc Fiat SOHC engines.. this is just not a problem as long as the engine is healthy.

Shifting under 4,000 RPM is for fuel economy or torque motors or diesels. Does not apply to this Fiat engine. So, rev it into the red flat out and enjoy..

For those who complain the exxe is slow, try driving it flat out at / near red line for no less than a hour on a twisty back road.


Bernice


autocomman said:
THe 1300 only has a 2 inch stroke so ya it does love to rev...doenst hurt it to rev it out once in a while... i mean not something id be doing every drive every shift kinda thing, but meh
Click to expand...
 
One word: economy

If the car doesn't deliver the stated level of economy on the sticker people complain. To get maximum economy short shifting is a way to do it when you have plenty of torque down low. The way the CAFE standard driving test is run rewards non real world behaviors, thus why they put upshift lights and other features to have you as a user following a regime like that to get better economy.

Not having much torque, particularly down low, an X is a real dog if you don't rev it.

In my experience the X will deliver excellent economy when driven in any mode with clearly the best mileage in long steady state highway driving. I have never seen a notable drop in mileage regardless of how I drove my X around town.
 
a race car driving buddy told me once...

It has to do with the graph of rpm vs torque.

There is a sweet spot right before the torque starts to flatten out, that is where you shift.

Doesn't matter though, I am glad I brought it up! I had no idea this car was so robust.

I am coming from the world of jeep tj Sahara where you shift before 2000, or you go broke!$$$$

M
 
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I don't think I have ever shifted the car below 3K RPM....? Really, if you look at the powerband of both engines 1.3-1.5 there really isn't anything there in low RPM.

Now, I do have a CAM from Midwest in my X so my power band is on the higher limit of the curve now, but I can't remember I time I DIDN't run it all the way up to 6500K and beyond before shifting. I drive it like I stole it every time!

In fact, I think your ignition is your limiting factor on the 7K and beyond... Plus, you reach a FLAT ground whereas you are getting no further HP, just ringing out your motor.

These engines LOVE high RPM's. A well maintained engine can, and will take 7K with no problem.
 
It takes guts to 7K the engine

It feels like jumping out from an airplane, I know the parachute is there and it will open in time... but still, it is against all my instincts.
Brrrrr...
 
Here in Toronto we have a raised highway that skirts the southern most point of the city right in between lake ontario. Underneath the gardiner, lakeshore drive continues along the same path.

If I leave early for work or am late for work there is an opportunity to open up the car a bit otherwise you are in traffic and moving very slowly.

The sound of that little car resonating underneath that raised highway just makes it a joy to go to work...I look forward to it each day


I must admit, I have not wound it up to 7000 yet, but I am shifting higher and surprise some of the sleepy merc's, bmw's, audi's lexus' and porsche drivers off the line. They soon wake up though, and leave me behind, but I get them for a few shifts!

It is my new mission in life, waking up the stock brokers on their way to work. Perhaps I will be responsible for improving the economy.

M
 
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