Lesson Learned about Weight and Seat From Hell Continued

The front fender lip of the 74 sits at 25 inches with 175 60 13 tires, and the 87 sits at 23.5 inches with 185 60 13 tires. I thought that maybe the springs had been cut and wanted to see how the 74 would look with the 87 struts. I swapped them out and both cars sat exactly the same as they had before. It amazes me how much difference the weight of the stock 87 Bertone front end affects the ride height relative to the 74 with its bumperettes removed.

I don't think the bumper will have that much of an effect on static height (no where near 1.5" worth!!) . yes, it's heavy - but are you sure you have 175/60/13 tires and not 175/70/13? The 185/60/13 is a very small tire to begin with, and a 175/60/13 is even smaller, so technically your '74 should be sitting lower than your late model with the 185's..

If you're riding on 175/70/13 tires, then that alone has an impact on height - and a fairly big one at that IMHO.
 
Yes,

Yes, I'm sure about the tires, they are 175 60 13 brand new Achilles Platinum 7s, and I measured their diameter versus the 185 60 13s on the 87. They are a half inch shorter. I was really surprised to see the result of the strut switch!
 
Hmm, I know the early knuckles were different than the later 4spd, perhaps the knuckles have an effect on the height - you'd need to compare them.

The 5spd ones are better, as they use a larger bearing.. but you'd need to verify if they fit the early steering rack.

You could measure the centerline of the bearing to the centerline of the strut mounting holes on the knuckles that you have. The '75 up to '78 were different to the '74 IIRC

I just don't believe that a 50lb divided weight at the nose can compress the springs by 1.5". I could be wrong, but I try to never admit it.
. Lol!!

175/60/13 is a rare size BTW!
 
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I agree

Myron, I agree that it is hard to believe it is all due to weight - and the 87 didn't even have its battery in!
 
late style bumper is 50lbs? Really? I wonder what the total is for front rear and all shock tubes, I ditched them all. My car is too high in the nose, need to cut a coil out.....been saying that for years now.
 
Another Way?

I'm intrigued by the PBS performance write up that describes moving the lower attachment bracket up on the strut 15/16th of an inch as a way to lower the front. I think I'm going to go that route first and then fine tune with the spring length.
 
I did that on my race car,but you need rebuildable struts for that. Like the '74 in fact (those struts can be rebuilt). You can't do that to a gas charged unit because you need to weld to the tube.

Raising the mounting ears is ideal because you don't loose the strut travel. I have IAP lowering springs (similar to Vick's autosports) and I've still had to chop off a coil from them to get the car to sit level, and I also added camber adjustment at the knuckle (slotted the upper hole in the lower strut ear mount - if that makes sense, then use a washer that I weld onto the strut when it's aligned.) I have KYB struts, so unfortunately I can't relocate the ears.
 
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late style bumper is 50lbs? Really? I wonder what the total is for front rear and all shock tubes, I ditched them all. My car is too high in the nose, need to cut a coil out.....been saying that for years now.

well, that's just a number I threw out - including plastic, bumper shocks, etc.. could be lighter..

and yes, drop that sucker! :)
 
Glad to hear it

I'm pleased to hear that someone else has done this. Myron, how did you go about removing the bracket to reposition it without damaging the integrity of the housing? Regarding the spring itself, I too would cut it, but first, given my desire to have a car that sits a little lower but with a ride quality similar to stock, I am going to check with Springs N Things about getting coils made that will lower the car but reflect the lighter weight. They are very knowledgeable about factory spring rates and how to achieve different ride heights and ride quality.
 
Well, the PBS mod is a little different in that they make their own ears IIRC - I didn't.. I took the less glamorous approach!

I used a grinder, and cut the heck out of it and an air chisel (I made my slice at the back of the ears). Not pretty. The old strut tube was not reusable in my case.. the PBS book outlines the better approach quite well and you can reuse the original strut tube.

I welded those used ears onto my own tubes from Ground Control, to house some Tokico strut cartridges (non adjustable, but good for the spring rates I had)


On the other hand, if you did get your own coils wound, you can then do the approach I did for ease - I drilled three small holes in the upper and lower perch, used safety wire to hold the spring to the perches, made my own thrust washer (for steering) out of Delrin, and the Delrin thrust washer "snaps" into the upper spring perch. This way, when I raise the car up, everything stays aligned and in place for when I drop the car again. - this is assuming you don't change the location of the ears and you want to lower it. My car sits fairly low, with the rear control arms parallel to the ground - camber is corrected back to OE. I think it looks nice :) but the ride is much harsher than OE... that I don't like.

Make sure you keep the late model car (parts at least!), so handy to have the rear strut hardware - heck, even the rear struts are different (two reasons why, one is the mounting ears on the late model are designed to clear the 5spd CV joint, and also the top hardware is different than the original '74 style - assuming that's what you have.


BTW: I hope you get your seat out.. I had the same issue, it was loose change stuck in the track... lots of WD40 (I'd use PB Blaster now, helped a little - but so did a long pair of needle nose vise grips).. also, what I'd use today would be a USB bullet camera (Endoscope), shove it down by the seat track - I bought one on ebay for $30 or so.. so useful! has LED lights and gets into the tightest spots!
 
Endoscope under seat?

Walter,

I'm back from Vermont now. One of my guys at work has an endoscope camera we can use to see what's going on under that seat. Let me know if you want me to borrow it from him

Ed
 
Thanks

Thank you Ed! I'm going to be trying a few more things to get it free, and will let you know. Stop by and check out he 87 some time!
 
seat

dunno if the last post made it or not....still having craptop issues. so I will try again.
1 do not remove the lower cover. you will have no access to the rails.
I have a stripped 79 seat here and the rails are buried on the side.
2 make sure that there no obstructions on the rail (penny, dime) and you have cleared all the notches on the adjustment and they (rails) are straight.
3 liberal spray of lithium grease.
4 make sure that the spring is indeed off that seat, not the other side.
hard to see. you need to slide the seat all the way back to check.
5 check and see if the upper rails are bolted to the seat bottom. I don't have any more 74 seats here to check for you and confirm, but believe the early seats rails weren't welded.
6 have a stout buddy and a few beer on hand and MUSCULE it out. had the same problem on the passengers seat in the 79 I dismantled.
beer and buddy's work all the time!!!
mikemo
 
Thanks

Thanks Mike,

Yes, I took the seat cushion out on the passenger side and could not see any more than before, but it did give me some leverage. I really can't see at all how to check the tracks for obstructions. I finally got the passenger seat out (please see my Separating the Seat Back from Bottom post), but am still stuck on the driver's side.
 
OK on your Seats here is what I have done to get them unstuck,

Step 1. Spray PB blaster in the rails from the front and from the rear. I mean literally empty the Can

Step 2. You just need to break the rusted seal so rather than trying to move the seats forward Try and use a Sledge Hammer to Move them back a bit. If you dont have enough swing room Remove the steering wheel so it wont get in your way. Remember you get ten times the force when hammering.

Step 3 Get a Pry bar about 2 feet in length is fine. Wedge it on the rear rail and the firewall and Start Hammering in the down position. The only damage this may do is to the rear panel so careful.

Let us know how this works. I have unstuck about 6 cars like this. Its all you can do when you are in a junk yard and you really need them seats.
:D:grin:
 
I'll Try

Thanks - I'll try the hammer and pry bar. I don't think it is a rust problems as much as an obstruction problem (please see the photos I posted in the WF 'Separating Seat Back from Bottom' thread. But I'll get it eventually !
 
Thanks - I'll try the hammer and pry bar. I don't think it is a rust problems as much as an obstruction problem (please see the photos I posted in the WF 'Separating Seat Back from Bottom' thread. But I'll get it eventually !

You do know that you have to pull up on that lever under the front at the same time right? THe lever might be bent. You can stick a flat head in there and pop it loose.
 
I'm sure you've already checked this, but...

...is the floor under the rail damaged? If so the rail may be bent and jamming the seat. Ask me how I know...
 
Seems OK

That's a good suggestion - I looked under the car and the floor looks perfect. I really think some unseen thing like a screw is on the tracks, and given I can't see or get to it, will have to muscle past it.
 
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