Abarth X1/9 Road testing.

TonyK

True Classic
As of you may know I have installed a Fiat 500 Abarth engine from a 2012 car into my 87 X1/9. As swaps go they are complicated, technology has changed and OEM want to protect it's design and product. ECU's are locked down and changing that program can be difficult if not impossible leaving only to work with what is there.

To prove theories and solutions road testing for reliability is required.

So for this week I am in Radcliff Kentucky staying with Bob Martin.

As luck would have it I unloaded the car and Bob and I took the car for drive but the Sport Button would not engage the 160 HP mode. I traced the problem to an open wire and made repairs. So for now, no limp mode, the car is running very well and it is possible to engage sport mode.

Back in Bob's shop we did a lighting upgrade from T8 light fixture to T5 Light fixtures. I have attached pictures, will provide more updates throughout this week.

TonyK.

At Bob Martin's in Radcliff Kentucky.


 
Proving therories

If I can state one major mistake it is that I did not spend the time to learn about the Abarth engine. All I knew about it was that it was a computer controlled engine that allowed variable valve timing.

As swaps go this is complicated and taking two entities to make one at times complicates issues. The problem I have been having was that at times the engine would go into to limp mode. The Fiat X1/9 engine operates on a 190 degree temperature thermostat along with the rad fan switch. The Fiat Abarth engine has a 176 degree thermostat. I did not know this until October of 2015. The X temperature sender was installed in the cooling circuit to give dash indication. We all know when the X is running hot or in normal conditions. The Abarth engine has a temperature sender mounted in the thermostat housing that gives a signal to the ECU which uses this information to set fueling tables give dash indication of engine temperature and control the fans mounted on the radiator. The issue now was when the Abarth thermostat opens it has a long path to the front mounted rad on the X 1/9 and the X1/9 fans do not come on until the rad reaches 190 degrees, but this time the Abarth engine is at 200 degrees and the ECU program drops a cylinder and injector forcing the engine into limp mode.

Us older guys know that changing a thermostat is no big deal, and the old engines have thermostats of different temperature ratings or settings. The Abarth is a package an all that I can find is a 176 degree thermostat and forced me into modifying a stock unit. I have attached the link for the You Tube video. Running the engine at cooler temperatures is part of the testing this week at Bob Martin's and currently my theory is looking to be correct.

After market ECU tunes are just that changes in the tuning tables and tuners don't bother trying to defeat ABS or other parts of the program that are part of a package. Even dealer tech's only want to consider what the OEM design is and thinking out of the box of an engine swap leaves them stumped.

One other point here about the Abarth ECU, after mid 2014 Fiat encrypted the ECU's and currently no one has been able to access the latter ECU's. Although in my mind Fiat shot themselves in the foot by doing this, if I was looking a buying a new Abarth and wanted to get more performance from an after market tuning box but the ECU was locked down, the why would I purchase the car.

Anyway, I was asked for more pictures, what are you looking for.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDXF-QNot2Q


TonyK.

At Bob Martin's in Radcliff Kentucky.
 
Excellent work, Tony!

Problem with running a lower tstat on a complex system is that unless you change the parameters for cooling fan onset and what the system considers "warm", the system will still run until the desired engine temp is achieved. I would also expect it to never reach normal operating conditions in terms of fueling, as I would expect the system to interpret the lower temp as the engine is simply not warmed up properly & add more fuel etc... These were problems I encountered on my Motronic 4.4 system, which is Stone Age compared to modern day EMS's...

Did you look into modifying these parameters?
 
What has been considered

Hussein, we all know that the X engine bay runs Hot and that also the distance to the rad is long. There is a delay that must be anticipated.

Currently the rad has a 160 degree fan cut in temperature switch and the T stat starts to open at 160 degrees. So far this has proved to work nicely. When I did the electrics on this car the OEM dash cluster was retained for trouble shooting issues. It was not possible to install the OEM cluster in the X dash. It is used to monitor engine parameters when required. I am now within the range that the engine is to run and it does warm up to the required parameter. Heat soak was an issue but that too has been addressed with an aux cooler installed in the water cooled turbo charger circuit that has a selectable run timer.

TonyK.

At Bob Martins in Radcliff Kentucky.

 
Small issues

The last few days it has been raining here in Kentucky, so we have been working on Bob's Dallara installing oil pressure, water temperature and volt meter gauges. The Abarth X1/9 was used to make parts runs to the Auto parts store and Bob say's if I keep driving the way I have been I will need new brakes by the end of the week. That is part of the process. So, problems, Sport button not working traced to a wiring issue. Resolved. Loss of boost, vacuum gauge on dash indication, hose popped off due to the sun beating on the dash and heating the manifold pressure line. Resolved. Left engine side scoop attachment holes ripped out and failed. I know that doesn't seem to most to be an issue but that side of the car the ambient temperature is mounted. When we were tracing a problem I removed the left side scoop and detached the sensor, that sensor is constantly monitored and throws a DTC that prevents the engine from learning. Small stuff, just annoying that takes time to sort out. Had the side scoop fallen off while driving it would have went under the tire and I would have lost the sensor. The sensor is located in the stock Abarth right mirror and you must buy a whole mirror to get the sensor.

Tomorrow the weather is going to be better so we are hoping to have a full day with the car and put some longer miles on it.



TonyK

At Bob Martins in Radcliff Kentucky.
 
I hope the weather cooperates

Tomorrow the weather is going to be better so we are hoping to have a full day with the car and put some longer miles on it.

TonyK

At Bob Martins in Radcliff Kentucky.

I hope the weather cooperates with you and Bob. Here in STL, 4.5 hours slightly northwest of you, it looks to be a lovely day today. :grin:
 
Amazing work....

Wish I could hang out with you guys, between the 3 Xs and the shop it looks like a great way to spend a few days. Would love to go for a spin in the Abarth X sometime. Have fun....
 
Test drives

My hope here is that at FFO 2016 Detroit I will be able to take aanyone that is interested for a test drive. Currently I think I am on track.

Bernice made a statement about LeMons and reliability where engine swapped cars were in their own class, her words are VALID. There are a lot of little things that pop up that need to be dealt with. Just how it is.

Today Bob and I took the car out for a short parts run and it is apparent that the learning feature is now working in the ECU.

We spent the day working on Bob's 2 cars the weather cool and cloudy, tomorrow is road trip day, two X1/9's hit the road and we see what happens. I will post the day's results good or bad. Sunday I will be on the road to go back to Canada.

So for today we completed the wiring on all of the Dallara marker lights and replaced the key switch on the Dallara from my Abarth X1/9 as the stock key switch is no longer needed.

See pictures.

TonyK

At Bob Martin's Radcliff Kentucky


 
Drive day

Today Bob Martin and I set out with one car only the Abarth X1/9. We drove about 160 miles with the car or about 250 KM through Bardstown, and to Lincoln's place of birth Hodgensville Kentucky and through the Burbon capital of the world, or so Bob tells me.

The car ran well and Sport Mode was always available. Both Bob and I drove the car. The day was 72 degrees and there were times when we were in stop and go traffic or just idling reading historic signs. We stopped for lunch at Mammy's in Bardstown. After lunch the throttle went into throttle hold where it holds the last setting of rpm for 5 seconds even though my foot has been lifted from the gas pedal. There is reteach for this but the cause is always a code put up by the ECU P1239 was posted on the ECU Oil temperature too low. I am partly to blame for this as in my efforts isolate heating and ECU issues I installed stand off for the oil temperature sensor. That is an easy undo.

So for now the car is running well, better than year ago and I think I have the issues resolved.

TonyK

At Bob Martin's in Radcliff Kentucky.


 
TK... Great stuff! Want more cooling?

Take those side scoops and with a Dremel tool, cut off the grid work ob the back side carefully.

A little filing and de-burring and you now pass about 25% to 30% more air into the engine bay.

On my car... I have ducted the LEFT vent directly into the carb air cleaner, cutting the snorkel back to a diameter of about 2 1/2 inches, using heater flex hose and a tin can as a riveted adapter on the vent.

The right side vent appears to work great alone with the rain tray removed and a nice dose of clean, fresh, cool air from the left vent rammed down the carb throat at speed.

I am also a proponent of K&N... #2710 for a stock carb hosing. Every little bit helps and as TK keeps discovering as he keeps peeling this ONION... the DEVIL is in the DETAILS!
 
Tire sizing...

Hey Tony... Your favorite Texan here....

Question...

If my eyes are correct, am I seeing a KUMHO 235/45VR13 87V on the rear and a KUMHO 215/50VR13 87V on the front of Bob's Dallara? Ahhhh maybe a Potenza? I have found a set of Kumho's out in Au..... Would be curious as to the wheel widths and back spacing on the car... Any info you can give me??? Sure wish I was puttering around with you guys.... Soon enough.
 
Not just LeMons, this hold true for any significantly item altered from as delivered. More often than not, the design and engineering involved to produce that item to meet market, legal and many other requirements is often intensive and significant.

This idea, concept should always be in mind any time modifications or deviations from as delivered is considered... even an item that appears simple like a plastic clip can have significant issues when altered or replaced with an alternative item. A deep understand of the design goals must be had before alterations or changes are considered.. and always question what can and will go wrong once the alterations and changes are done, how to deal with it all if or when it does not produce the expected result.

The difference between an acceptable product -vs- an truly outstanding product and design is all in the details focused to solve and meet the need as much as possible.

Sorting out a project like this Abarth conversion is no small task. Typically a group of individuals would be involved with an endeavor like this with proper technical and numerous other support resources.

Quite an admirable thing to take on a project like this. What is learned is not small during a project like this. That is were the greatest reward can be found.


:)
Bernice




Bernice made a statement about LeMons and reliability where engine swapped cars were in their own class, her words are VALID. There are a lot of little things that pop up that need to be dealt with. Just how it is.

See pictures.

TonyK
 
Congrats! Can't wait to see it in Detroit!

The devil in a modern car is in all the details, what once was not an issue in an analog system or intermittent just doesn't cut it on a system that updates digitally many times per second.

Keep sniping away at it.
 
Very true words.

There are a lot of considerations as you have mentioned. If one were to look at the package of the Fiat 500 Abarth car the design is not like cars of the past. The package is built to continually direct you back to the dealer. Parts are not interchangeable with off the shelf parts produced by others. The car is built to be sold cheap with narrow margins and then sell parts that are only dealer obtainable at higher prices than would be expected. At times I was forced either to look at wreckers for parts that I missed or thought I didn't need when I was a Midwest Bayless or purchase new at dealer prices.

As the road testing progresses and the car runs well, stopping now comes to be the next consideration. I have spent more time driving the car than Bob, who is cautious and at times pussy foot's around ( in my opinion)when he is behind the wheel of the car. So in the last day we hope to have his car the Black Dallara and my car on the road for a bit of fun.

TonyK.

At Bob Martin's in Radcliff Kentucky.
 
Bob's tires

Hey Tony... Your favorite Texan here....

Question...

If my eyes are correct, am I seeing a KUMHO 235/45VR13 87V on the rear and a KUMHO 215/50VR13 87V on the front of Bob's Dallara? Ahhhh maybe a Potenza? I have found a set of Kumho's out in Au..... Would be curious as to the wheel widths and back spacing on the car... Any info you can give me??? Sure wish I was puttering around with you guys.... Soon enough.

Well Bob read your post and went out to the barn/garage in his slippers and pj's and I have the following.

Rear
Bridgestone 205/50R15 9" width 160+ MPH rating
Front
Bridgestone 195/50R 15 7" width


Rims Circle Racing Wheels. No back spacer's, Bob say's the rim offset is made for this car.

TonyK.

At Bob Martin's in Radcliff Kentucky.
 
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