How tall is your ride???

Getting ready for winter projects and hoping to replace most or all of the rubber in my suspension. I can see some of the bushings are cracked and deteriorating and strut mounts began shifting this summer. Struts seem OK (no bouncing) and I like the overall stance of my X but wondering if my springs are tired or OK. Also not sure if they're stock or a PO cut them down. This is my only X so I have nothing to compare with.

I will know more when I take things apart but decided to measure my wheel well height and wondered how my measurements compare with others. I'm riding on stock cd91's and 186/60/13 in the front and 205/60/13 in the rear (yes I know this is too wide for my rims and looking fwd to rectifying that as well).

I am presently about 22.5" in the front and 23" in the rear. How about you???

175/70/13 on the same rim as you and the measurement on the front well is twenty two and one eighth and the rear is twenty three and a fat eighth. I have done some chopping on the springs.

Coupla things Greg...

1. Mr. Brown should have some stock springs laying around. Why not call or write him to get their overall height. I can't help you there as I have been riding on 2 inch dropped springs for over 15 years now.

2. 205/60's are generally recommended to be fitted on rims no less than 6 inches in width. Mine are 5.5J's and I have run that size tire for probably about 15 years as well, and I'm on my third set. The other two sets appeared to wear FAST (Sumitumo's, UTOQ 380) but they also wore EVENLY. (All that power...) I never rotated any as I ran 175/50's and 175/60's or 185/60's up front... and still have a problem with the thought of cross-rotating them, whether or not the wear is affected or not. I just keep it aligned and the tires balanced.

Alas if you have 4 or 5 inch rims... its probably not a good idea. I thought this time around I would not be able to find the sizes I wanted and it would have been the PERFECT time (excuse) to go up to 15's... probably 15 x 7's up front and 15 x 8's in the rear... and then the tire availability woulda been almost unlimited!

3. If you do decide to pull the struts and springs for measurement, modification or replacement... It would behoove you to purchase some Plaia Pivots and install them. Bob Brown approved and recommended by all that have them.

HTH...

I would say Mark Plaia approved ...

... and I would have to agree. :nod:

I do have some stock springs laying around, but loose springs wouldn't help if they were not assembled IMHO.
But, I do happen to have some assemblies laying around too.
Greg, do you need the height of those?

The stock springs should be very close Bob, as...

compression would only be about 1/2 to 1 inch when assembled. It should get him in the ballpark and you can also COUNT the number of coils. That would give him a GOOD idea if his were cut or not.

Alas... MOST aftermarket springs are painted a different color and the "factory springs" are usually "rust-colored" (covered?) to match the undercarriage on New England cars... (HA!) If in doubt, he should try scratching the paint or rust to see if there is any other underlying color.

Some aftermarket performance springs have been known to actually INCREASE the height too... but look... Bob, just reach under your bed... you don't even haveta get up... and pull out one of your NOS factory springs in MINT condition and tell Greg how long it is!

GEEZ!

Easier said than done Tony,

Black-Tooth said:

The stock springs should be very close Bob, ascompression would only be about 1/2 to 1 inch when assembled. It should get him in the ballpark and you can also COUNT the number of coils. That would give him a GOOD idea if his were cut or not.

Click to expand...

It's easier to LOOK to see if the springs were cut.
If they were cut, it's likely the person cutting them wouldn't (or didn't) put a flat taper on the end of the spring and the perch would sit at an odd angle.

BTW, the rear spring would be compressed nearly 2 inches, while the front spring would be at least an inch. Whose ballpark are you referring to ? :nana:

Black-Tooth said:

Alas... MOST aftermarket springs are painted a different color and the "factory springs" are usually "rust-colored" (covered?) to match the undercarriage on New England cars... (HA!) If in doubt, he should try scratching the paint or rust to see if there is any other underlying color.

Click to expand...

All the factory springs I've ever seen were painted black, with exception of the 1974 X where they were painted sepia brown. :whistle:

Black-Tooth said:

Some aftermarket performance springs have been known to actually INCREASE the height too... but look... Bob, just reach under your bed... you don't even haveta get up... and pull out one of your NOS factory springs in MINT condition and tell Greg how long it is!

GEEZ!

Click to expand...

I would measure the height, but finding them in my Mac-X stash these days has become difficult. Everything is in storage bins and stacked. Specific parts are hard to find now, and since it's about 25 degrees in my storage room, unfortunately I'll have to do this at another time.
But if I was retired like YOU... :confuse2:

Here's my measurements and my perspective...

My '74 has new front struts and pivot bushings, and older rear struts. I am assuming stock springs with 66k miles on them.
The numbers, with 21.9" tires up front (195/45-15), and 23.0 tires in back (205/50-15) measures:
24 1/4" front
23 7/8" rear.

To compare apples to apples, if I was running your tires, which measure 21.7" in front (185/60-13) and 22.7" in the back(205/60-13), my car would approximately be:
24 3/8" front
23 3/4" rear

Now my '78, which I have no idea what has been done by the PO's, is running 22.6" tires (175/70-13). It measures:
24 1/2" front
23 1/4" rear

Adjusted to your tires, the measurements are:
24 1/4" front
23 1/4" rear

Hope that helps...

Mystery (partially) resolved...

Took a closer look at my existing suspension parts and counted the coils. My X is still on the ground so it was difficult to inspect but the coils are black and both the front and rear coils seem to be cut down by ~1 coil.

Sitting on some older KYB 233003 and 233004 struts. The car sat for several years before I purchased it and I've had it for three. I'm guessin' the struts are likely well over 10 years old.

The ride on my X is pretty good. I like the stance and the way it handles but bumps/dips are a bit abrupt. Would love to try a set of progressive springs but not sure I want to change too many things at once...

Getting cold here and snow is flying soon so it will be time to put her up on jack stands for the winter and begin the teardown/work

Geez Greg... you and Bob sure seem to be kinda...

whuss-y. I was in shorts and a Hawaiian shirt all day yesterday...

Pictured here is MY 2 year old Bella Ella Noelle and her "Puppy-Pooper Pick-Up" bags trolling in the afternoon... barefoot!



I mean... 25c is what, 77 degrees Fahrenheit? It was only about 68 here.

(HA!)

Here are some shots of my "custom" springs... One coil cut and then heated 180 degrees from the "recently tapered" and cut end, carefully bent to fit the pocket evenly... and done simply with a propane torch. I held onto the other end and just pressed the heated end down until it was angled the way I wanted.

Overall now the spring was about 1 3/4 inch shorter... required the "machining" work on the strut rod as shown here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1147042621/

With some upgraded comments here:

http://xwebforums.com/wiki/index.php?title=LoweringFrontEnd

This is my finished product and my only "regret" was removing the rubber covering which included the bump stop. I hardly ever "need" it though... but its better to retain.



I am attempting to show the newly tapered ends...



Some of the tools I used...



Bottom line Greg... Most "performance" springs that you buy will be stiffer, and some even raise the height of the car. To get a LOWER and a SOFTER ride you will probably have to find some from another car that will fit, possibly alter them yourself, or have custom springs wound to your specs.

In my case... my PRIMARY purpose was to eliminate the LOOK with the nose so high. I did this by cutting JUST the front springs as described, lowering the front end 2" overall at the bumper, and installing larger tires in the rear and smaller tires in the front.

What I got was not only the LOOK I wanted, but better handling, better braking and a PLEASANTLY "firm" ride without it being too stiff.

Also, 99% of my front brake lock-up issues were GONE using a 60 series tire and the "static" increased weight transfer. WIN-WIN-WIN!

HTH... and stay warm!

Lower

Fronts: 21 1/8"
Rear: 22"

Coil overs

Drop Springs
Front: 22.5"
Rear: 23.5"
I ran the rear springs on all four corners. Not sure what the oem spring rates are but handling improved.

I hate speed bumps, some gas station entries... But enjoy the handling!

UPDATE...

Life's been limiting my garage time this Winter but finally wrapped-up some of the suspension work I've been doing. After removing my front struts I got a good look at the cut-springs and (IMO) the PO hacked them a bit and didn't grind/bend them to fit the perches well. Also pretty sure the original bits were all original and I could see some checking/cracking on the control arm bushings and radius rod bushings. Ball joints and tie rods seemed ok but seemed like a good time to replace everything so I...
- Replaced all the struts, control arms, tie rods, bushings, nyloc nuts, etc.
- Splurged on a set of mounts, Plaia pivots/plates, and Apex progressive springs.

Everything's installed and tightened up and looks good. I tried to mount the tie rods in the same locations but still need to do a string alignment and shop alignment.

Did a quick height measurement with the same wheels/tires I had mounted previously. The front sits ~ .5" higher and the rear ~.25" higher than before. So 23" in the front and 23.25" in the rear. Without the larger 205's in the rear I would be slightly nose-up.

When reassembling the stock KYB struts with the apex springs, they only required a slight amount of compression (less than an inch) to attach the top nyloc nut. So they are lower and less compressed vs stock springs but I didn't need to cut the struts or attach the springs to the perches with wire to keep them in place when the strut was fully elongated.

SO... very happy with the fit of everything and will report back when I'm able to get aligned, running, and back on the road.

Your fotos seemed to disappear Greg... Can you re-post?

Thanks!

Black-Tooth said:

Thanks!

Click to expand...

My original post? I still see them. I didn't post any new pics in my prior post. But here's what the new struts look like...

Yeah... I know... That didn't hurt too much now did it?

HA!

Great color scheme too!