The Multi Air Project

Matt, do you have a reference to the AllData stuff you think was useful? I might purchase access if you think it's worthwhile. What year car were you looking at data for?

As for the transmission, is it cable shifted or via rods?

What did you notice regarding drive axles? Did it appear that it may be relatively simple to adapt for either the 4 or 5 speed hubs?
 
Aftermarket ECU's

Recently Haltech has come out with the Elite series. These ECU's might just make it so we can run a Multiair on an aftermarket system thus eliminating all of the unnecessary parts.
 
Would that be Haltech of Southeast Idaho? Care to tell...

us a little bit more?

I found these blokes outta New South Wales in OZ... Maybe this is what you are talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNBcA_wxPes&feature=youtu.be

I can hardly understand a word they are saying as they kinda muck-up the language a bit... Kinda like when ya get Bob Brown all excited.

I did go to their Online store and found their Elite 1500 costs about $1500 AUS or about $1895 USD. Maybe they should call this one the Elite 1900 for the NA version.

As you said, the 2500 is due out NOW, I can only imagine what the price might be... But it appears to do EVERYTHING with rave reviews.

Sure wish I understood what this guy is saying... Oh Looky... The price does appear to MATCH the new Model Number!

https://www.google.com/search?q=haltech+elite+2500&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 
I hadn't posted anything as it seemed there was little collaboration happening.

My effort on the Multi Air has been slack of late as that thing called life is getting in the way and I have been slowly self re mapping the Punto engine I fitted when I get any free time before going near the Dyno again.

FWIW Steven I have been 'fossicking' at various sources and have collected a fair bit of info that should answer most of your questions, I could tell a funny story about a conversation with a local 'dealer' when I drove the X in but I don't want to pollute the thread.

I will get the info into a document that makes some sense.

There is a heap of devices that the Engine control, Body control modules etc etc manage - mind boggling.

I was going down two forks and haven't decided for myself the full benifits of duplicating the whole shebang, or just keeping it simple and dropping some feature sets.

You can get maximum potential power without trying to keep all the periferal gear but you will loose economy and midrange tourque as a result, not to mention the auto gearbox controls.

I'll get on it


Papa Tony if you have problems with the accent perhaps I can help, I had no problem understanding it.

Cheers
Sandy
 
Haltech makes some solid systems. I was considering it for the k20a2 swap, but went Hondata as I couldn't find a local tuner who was really comfortable with it (as much as the Hondata).

I am super excited about a Fiat to Fiat engine swap (that sounds weird...) and looking forward to more on this...
 
fiatmonkey said:
Haltech makes some solid systems. I was considering it for the k20a2 swap, but went Hondata as I couldn't find a local tuner who was really comfortable with it
Click to expand...

Bang!! SPOT ON

There is much jibber jabber at grass roots level on different brands and their perceived superiority. Cutting through the all that gumpf is often hard for an outsider with a cursory understanding of the microprossessor control. Focusing on actual feature sets to suit the application and most importantly the local support and skilled tuning workshop staff is key to satisfaction with the end result.

For example my old ECU ceased manufacture over a decade ago and had a wide reputation for really poor idle control, when I made mechanical changes to the Uno I ran into them and idle < 1,000RPM was unstable. I was told just to accept it as it was widely known that the ECU had a bad Rep' in that area. That didn't sit well with me as far as I've been able to tell comparing other systems of that generation nothing came close to the number of variables you can tune on the wolf3dV4. It had 16 tunning load points, can be tuned per 125rpm, also has the capability to tune finer down low by sacrificing fine tunning (which is not really required) up top.ie: Between 500-2000rpm you can tune by 50rpm increments and reduce the resolution between 5000-7500rpm to 250rpm. So I could not understand why it had idle instability comments posted all over the Net. I had to teach myself to program it as few shops would touch it anymore (despite it actually being a good unit, fit for purpose). An understanding of increased load at idle fuel/timing requirements solved it, it showed so many tuners were jumping to the idle speed control system. That exacerbates the problem by introducing a third system over fuel and timing controls. Lazy - probably, but how do the punters know? I have seen a few maps where the WOT and idle ends are tuned with a few touch ups in the middle, the owners blame the ECU even though they obviously just paid some bozo a wad of money who just joined the dots in the middle. For some shops its most likely the commercial pressure to finish the job and get the car out of the workshop to sustain higher profit with a quick turnaround. So perhaps that the feature was called "idle speed control" seemed a good box to tick for the less serious tuners who hadn't done the training on the Wolf. I'm happy as these old systems regularly pop up for a few hundred dollars when folks get jack of trying to make them work, so spares I have on the shelf quite cheap. The X is now >30years old so a decade old ECU seems appropriate, has all the features that this application needs, I can get it to idle at 650 and it wanders ~ 50RPM but solid enough at 750 so I am happy.

I often go to car events and ask an owner why they chose their particular ECU, solid comment is 'because the tuner recommended it'. They had little understanding of what was really going on and I just smile and thought that I was once like that, okay if your car is mainstream but hard if it is out of the ordinary. Finding a good Dyno guy is often hit and miss but if you can speak/understand the lingo and talk coherently about what you need you get a better result. Oh it also helps the relationship if you try and iron out the majority of the bugs before turning up and tying it down on the rollers.

As an Aussie I might be rightly considered as prejudiced to choose a full featured Haltech over the Hondata piggy back but if it controls the analogue devices and the local guys are 'all over it' = good choice.

Dyno time is expensive, if a technician has to learn whilst installing your chosen brand it comes 'on your dime'.
 
HAHAHA... Hey Sandy... yeah, it takes me awhile...

to get "tuned-in" to the "dialect" but once I do, there are "no problems, mate!"

I last visited NZ way back in '63 and was about 17 years of age... which would make that 50, (FIFTY, as in 1/2 CENTURY) years ago! Within a few days you would have thought I lived there all my life!

HA!

Met a young sheila there who was also from the States, particularly the south, a Georgia Peach, she was... and one woulda thought she was born rite there in Wellington!

Not only am I becoming more INFLEXIBLE in so many ways... My hearing needs $8K in electronics just to understand about half of everything that is said. Maybe I need to spend more!

Good chattin' with ya!
 
Good question Enigma. I believe the 1.4T Jet initially used a different management system than the 1.4 Twin air CANBUS system. The T jet system is probably much easier to adapt to the X19 or other Fiats, however the engines are not plentiful or locally available, or cheap. There is or was one for sale Ebay Uk, seller in Poland? about 1,000 British pounds + shipping. These motors are also available from China used, cost unknown. Output around 150hp 130+ f/t.
 
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Not to mention the first opportunity to get one of those engines past US Customs will be in 2027 unless FIAT used them before 2007.

I believe the newest non-MultiAir FIAT motor we could import at this point would be from 1995.

Kevin Channer said:
Good question Enigma. I believe the 1.4T Jet initially used a different management system than the 1.4 Twin air CANBUS system. The T jet system is probably much easier to adapt to the X19 or other Fiats, however the engines are not plentiful or locally available, or cheap. There is or was one for sale Ebay Uk, seller in Poland? about 1,000 British pounds + shipping. These motors are also available from China used, cost unknown. Output around 150hp 130+ f/t.
Click to expand...
 
Is U.S. customs imposing restrictions on motors? There used to be plenty of vendors selling hot but never available in the U.S.,Japanese used engines. They were/are popular in the street racer circles but are illegal when installed in a street car as they do not meet smog requirements. Some guys went as far as having the motors smog retrofitted and certified as clean by a "smog referee" but that can be an expensive and rigorous process. I always thought that the feds did not care about engines, they let the local /state authorities deal with that at the registration and emissions check. Now cars are another matter, They are getting very aggressive with "grey market" vehicles, plenty of horror stories of seizures; and public demolitions.
 
Yes, they have started cracking down on engines and not just engines intended for highway use. There are ways of bringing them in but if someone gets caught selling them for uses that aren't allowed (like for use on public roads) there is going to be trouble.
 
DONE!

Please see this You Tube Video

https://youtu.be/_mOaJHslO94


This project started about 3 years ago when Bob Martin from Kentucky and I started thinking about putting a Fiat 500 engine into an X1/9. Shortly afterward the the 500 Abarth was released.

In the fall of 2013 I started looking for an engine, transmission and wiring from a wrecked Abarth car. I posted a want add in the for sale wanted form and Matt Brannon replied, he had Mike Soter's written off car.

I purchased the engine and everything I thought I would need to do transplant from Matt. On November the 6th Bob Martin drove up from Kentucky and met me at Midwest Bayless location where we stripped out the car and loaded all of the parts into my truck and I headed for Canada the next day.

It wasn't until January of 2014 that I had time to start to work on this project that Matt had started. There are a lot of things to consider when doing a swap and the decision made early on affects the out come greatly. I was always going in several directions at one time.

The start of the project was to install the engine in a section of an X1/9 engine bay to work out interference issues and to get the engine running. This took a year of my spare time. At that point the car that the engine would be installed in would be brought into the shop and it would be only a matter of using the transfer jigs to install the hard points in the 87X. In my mind I thought that this could be done in about 6 weeks. Wrong. Although the test body had resolved several problems, it lacked brake lines, Air Conditioner lines, wiring harness and shifter cables. These all took months to resolve.

By the end of April I asked Bob Martin if he would come up to Canada and spend a week or so to help me get the car together. He agreed and spent 9 nights at my house, we worked long days and had some real head scratchers to over come.

The video shows the car now as it sits road worthy. Some description of the Abarth X1/9 and some in progress video as Bob and I worked on the car.

My sincere thanks to Bob Martin for his help and being a buddy. There were times I was not the best company and the easiest person to work with, he is truly a person to help me obtain my goal of completing this project.

I would also like to thank Bob Brown for his direction on the instrument cluster modifications to get a working Speedometer and Tach and Tony Natoli for letting me bounce ideas off of his head for comment.

I thank all for keeping this project silent as the flood of ideas from many directions would have only kept me busy answering emails and going in directions that could have produced frustration.

So lastly all mechanical issues are resolved, the car has working Air Conditioning. I have a working platform that now can have the ECU tuned like the 500 Abarth's to allow flexibility in a little car that now has the performance that it deserves.

I will be at Freak Out with this car in Pittsburgh.



TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
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Well done Tony, unfortunately the link isn't working for me. DOH. Now that you've ironed out all the bugs I think I should drop my car off to you. That way you can master this. Lol
 
Nicely Done!

I like the calm, almost nonchalant statements about being able to break the back end loose and having to be careful. :shock::eyepop::)
 
Fantastic effort!!!

Skunk Works indeed.

:excited::eyepop::clap::italia::italia::italia:

That's a great job guys. Looking forward to seeing more details.

Cheers,

Rob
 
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