In the last few weeks news organizations have had several “collector car” articles, some of the cars have outrageous prices and many predict that “classics” will rise in price dramatically. Makes me think that I should put the Queen in storage and get another X that is less than perfect and wait 10 years and sell the Queen to become wealthy beyond my dreams.:eyepop: What say ye, will our favorite cars rise in price?
Future X value?
- Thread starter WYOX19
- Start date
jjay911
True Classic
Cars I had the chance to buy in the last 10 years that I passed on
1972 Dino Ferrari $60,000 Todays Value north of 350
1984 Lamborghini Countach $85,000 Value north of 250
Cars I owned in the past that are worth a lot more today
1972 Porsche 911 Carrera RS replica Sold for 13k value today north of 75K
Only X 19s of real value IMO are ones of extreme quality and or rarity or a combination.
My next wave of collector cars for my collection are 1960s Abarths. I already found one.:excited:
1972 Dino Ferrari $60,000 Todays Value north of 350
1984 Lamborghini Countach $85,000 Value north of 250
Cars I owned in the past that are worth a lot more today
1972 Porsche 911 Carrera RS replica Sold for 13k value today north of 75K
Only X 19s of real value IMO are ones of extreme quality and or rarity or a combination.
My next wave of collector cars for my collection are 1960s Abarths. I already found one.:excited:
Karfrik
Albert
Hi JJ, like always will love to know what specific Abarth have you found?
geekdaddy
X1/9 Learner's Permit...
Not sure why, but I don't see it.
Prices on X's (from excellent to poor condition) don't seem to have changed much in the past 10 years.
PERHAPS they will grow in value as they become more scarce. But I doubt that values will ramp steeply. I get feedback from a lot of folks that think my X is cool. But I don't think many of them would want to own one. Even for those who like the X (and some do not), they view them as quirky/different/interesting but not necessarily valuable.
But I really don't care. I have my reasons for liking the X and I'm very happy to own mine. I didn't buy it as an investment -- I just really appreciate owning, driving, and maintaining one. Having said all that, I'd be very happy to be wrong about all this
Prices on X's (from excellent to poor condition) don't seem to have changed much in the past 10 years.
PERHAPS they will grow in value as they become more scarce. But I doubt that values will ramp steeply. I get feedback from a lot of folks that think my X is cool. But I don't think many of them would want to own one. Even for those who like the X (and some do not), they view them as quirky/different/interesting but not necessarily valuable.
But I really don't care. I have my reasons for liking the X and I'm very happy to own mine. I didn't buy it as an investment -- I just really appreciate owning, driving, and maintaining one. Having said all that, I'd be very happy to be wrong about all this
myronx19
True Classic
I think so - the first to go up will of course be series 1 Euro steel bumpered cars and '74 North American cars that are mostly original.
I'll use Paul Valente's car as an example - it's fabulous on so many levels. That thing would fetch top dollar in my opinion. Sounds good too!
Unmodified, rust free and restored cars will be worth more than modified ones IMHO - and a good documented history to go along with it.
I'll use Paul Valente's car as an example - it's fabulous on so many levels. That thing would fetch top dollar in my opinion. Sounds good too!
Unmodified, rust free and restored cars will be worth more than modified ones IMHO - and a good documented history to go along with it.
Brett
True Classic
My thoughts...
Guessing whether a car will appreciate in value as an investment strategy I think is extremely risky. I think there are better places to invest if you are looking at it purely from a value/investment strategy. Sure there are the exceptions, but really, how many more examples of great cars that don't appreciate in value, and appreciate more than inflation, are there?
And, if it doesn't make REAL $$ as an investment, well, I'm reminded of a quote that I can't remember the source of and am paraphrasing...
"Not driving your car to protect perceived "value" is like keeping your girlfriend a virgin for the benefit of her NEXT boyfriend"
and put with that comparison, well, I'm gonna DRIVE my car!
Guessing whether a car will appreciate in value as an investment strategy I think is extremely risky. I think there are better places to invest if you are looking at it purely from a value/investment strategy. Sure there are the exceptions, but really, how many more examples of great cars that don't appreciate in value, and appreciate more than inflation, are there?
And, if it doesn't make REAL $$ as an investment, well, I'm reminded of a quote that I can't remember the source of and am paraphrasing...
"Not driving your car to protect perceived "value" is like keeping your girlfriend a virgin for the benefit of her NEXT boyfriend"
and put with that comparison, well, I'm gonna DRIVE my car!
Rogerthat
True Classic
Compare the X1/9 to the Ferrari 308. Today the mid 1980s 308 would have to go for around $155,000 to keep it's value. I'm guessing the average 308 is $90,000 shy of that figure. Having a high price car when new is hard to make money on compared to a lower price car.
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Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
One other caveat Jim. Yur healthy, but over 70... nt
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LarryC
Curator of #10105275
I hope this doesn't make anyone go off and brood, but…
Here's how it seems to work: The old/vintage cars that are extra-expensive today are the ones that people wanted desperately, or at least really liked, in their youth but could not afford. I have a long list (an AC Cobra, for example, which was too expensive way back and definitely is now), none of which I can still afford in their current market value today. Now, the X 1/9 was not on many lists back in the day, those that did want one bought one because they were not too expensive. And those that did buy one couldn't wait to get rid of it because they didn't know what it was or appreciate what it does do. No, the X is not a car for investment. It's one of those rare cars that some of us appreciate. We know what it is, and we have the skills to keep them. Others don't. In fact many people remember them unkindly. So the X is an unlikely candidate for "future expensive vintage car" under these criteria.
Sorry. I hope many find my view of reality incorrect and can argue otherwise.
Here's how it seems to work: The old/vintage cars that are extra-expensive today are the ones that people wanted desperately, or at least really liked, in their youth but could not afford. I have a long list (an AC Cobra, for example, which was too expensive way back and definitely is now), none of which I can still afford in their current market value today. Now, the X 1/9 was not on many lists back in the day, those that did want one bought one because they were not too expensive. And those that did buy one couldn't wait to get rid of it because they didn't know what it was or appreciate what it does do. No, the X is not a car for investment. It's one of those rare cars that some of us appreciate. We know what it is, and we have the skills to keep them. Others don't. In fact many people remember them unkindly. So the X is an unlikely candidate for "future expensive vintage car" under these criteria.
Sorry. I hope many find my view of reality incorrect and can argue otherwise.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
AMEN on all points Larry... I was one of those...
that actually wanted one way back then but just bought a new home and a new baby on the way.
Later on, like most "artisans" that seemed to drive "sports cars"... they never took care of them and they seemed to leave the planet altogether.
It was one of these artisans back in '83 that bought one because he couldn't keep his TR3 running... and gave me a ride. His was a '78 dealer-designed "California Special" that was a deep maroon with gold accents all over including the aftermarket Turbo-vane wheels... painted gold on the side of the vanes. It looked GREAT and drove GREAT! My wife just HAD to have one... and just a week later we bought Black Tooth that was for sale just down the street from our friends.
Alas, the artisan that he was... and a couple of blown head gaskets later... he gave it away to some other mutual friends, and I had the pleasure of pulling the head off that one for the first time! I can't remember what happened to it...
I guess I said all that to say I was one of those that loved them from first sight... one of the very few that appreciated what they were... and eventually figured out my way around what they were not. Kinda like my kids... but that's another LONG story...
that actually wanted one way back then but just bought a new home and a new baby on the way.
Later on, like most "artisans" that seemed to drive "sports cars"... they never took care of them and they seemed to leave the planet altogether.
It was one of these artisans back in '83 that bought one because he couldn't keep his TR3 running... and gave me a ride. His was a '78 dealer-designed "California Special" that was a deep maroon with gold accents all over including the aftermarket Turbo-vane wheels... painted gold on the side of the vanes. It looked GREAT and drove GREAT! My wife just HAD to have one... and just a week later we bought Black Tooth that was for sale just down the street from our friends.
Alas, the artisan that he was... and a couple of blown head gaskets later... he gave it away to some other mutual friends, and I had the pleasure of pulling the head off that one for the first time! I can't remember what happened to it...
I guess I said all that to say I was one of those that loved them from first sight... one of the very few that appreciated what they were... and eventually figured out my way around what they were not. Kinda like my kids... but that's another LONG story...
Joe F
Hi Miles, Lo Maintenance
Once smitten...
There is no going back. I had a deposit on a Mercury Capri (German made Ford) back in '72, waiting for one to be imported. They were the hot car back then. I saw an advert for a 124 SC and test drove it. Done deal! It's been Eye-tal-yen ever since. Enduring all the jokes and warnings for 42 years.
I agree that the reputation for reliability and rust will never make these collectables, therefore, drive the shot out of 'em! :nod:
There is no going back. I had a deposit on a Mercury Capri (German made Ford) back in '72, waiting for one to be imported. They were the hot car back then. I saw an advert for a 124 SC and test drove it. Done deal! It's been Eye-tal-yen ever since. Enduring all the jokes and warnings for 42 years.
I agree that the reputation for reliability and rust will never make these collectables, therefore, drive the shot out of 'em! :nod:
al_ngl
Resident Boilermaker
I think that the X1/9 will increase modestly in value over time from where it is now, but it will probably never make returns like proper equities or even numerous other cars. The fan base just isn't there. People in my car club (and most of the car people I know) hate the X1/9 in about a 3:1 ratio to those who like it. Most car people will be closed-minded to the idea of the car at all, having heard spooky FIAT stories and lacking the wow factor of significant performance figures.
Most of the trading of this model will happen among the dedicated few, and I think very few new adopters will emerge. As owners age, the market will shrink, and the cars will become concentrated to an even smaller owner base. Sub-par cars will likely become parts or scrap, but at this point the true clean cars will appreciate more rapidly.
I for one am okay with this slow appreciation. It means that if I had to "get out" of my X1/9, I could get back in another later without much loss. Also, when the few young X1/9 owners get older, we will be much more able to get the parts we need, as demand will not match the rate of inflation.
In summation, I think that the value of the X1/9 lies mostly in its novelty and essentially only serves a niche subset of the enthusiast base. If you want to make money on cars, look elsewhere. But if you truly like the X1/9, wouldn't increasing values be bad unless you have more cars/parts than you want?
Most of the trading of this model will happen among the dedicated few, and I think very few new adopters will emerge. As owners age, the market will shrink, and the cars will become concentrated to an even smaller owner base. Sub-par cars will likely become parts or scrap, but at this point the true clean cars will appreciate more rapidly.
I for one am okay with this slow appreciation. It means that if I had to "get out" of my X1/9, I could get back in another later without much loss. Also, when the few young X1/9 owners get older, we will be much more able to get the parts we need, as demand will not match the rate of inflation.
In summation, I think that the value of the X1/9 lies mostly in its novelty and essentially only serves a niche subset of the enthusiast base. If you want to make money on cars, look elsewhere. But if you truly like the X1/9, wouldn't increasing values be bad unless you have more cars/parts than you want?
shonan19328
SUN RISING COUNTRY, JAPAN
TOYOTA 2000GT
Hi, Do you know TOYOTA 2000GT, or have you seen?
http://matome.naver.jp/odai/2136853645838431101
http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1058397
Nobi Amada
JAPAN
Hi, Do you know TOYOTA 2000GT, or have you seen?
http://matome.naver.jp/odai/2136853645838431101
http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1058397
Nobi Amada
JAPAN
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Over the years on xweb, I have written much about this topic. Little if anything has changed.
Consider for a moment what defines the market value of most any item, it is much about perceived value and what any buyer is willing to spend on ownership. An item's market value does not always reflect it's innate value or content.
What makes a given brand "worth" more than another brand, it is much about brand identity and market perception and what owner expectations are.
When the Lambo Miura was introduced to the world, it re-defined or created the definition of "super car" in most every way. Yet, Lambo went belly up more than once with a long history of economic struggle. In comparison, Ferrari as a brand is highly valued. Difference being Ferrari went racing and won races, Lambo did not go racing and Mr. Lambo swore that Lambo would not go racing as long as he was in control of Lambo.
It simply means winning and association of ownership has social status value and brand identity value. The investor car market places great value on these perceive values. Sill, it was not until recently that the market value of the Miura began to reflect the recognition it deserves. Much of this has come from VW group's ownership of Lambo, newer cars from Lambo and cultivation of the brand which includes racing Lambos..
No such history or future for the x1/9. It will always IMO, remain a speciality cult car of exceptional design and production qualities. Yes, there have been many famed owners of the x1/9, and other who have shown the true performance potential of this chassis, still it will not have any significant effect on it's market value. Now that Bertone is mostly gone, the car that once kept Bertone's Lira flow running is very likely going to be forgotten.
What I do not like about the low market value of the x1/9, few of the speciality parts will be reproduced in high quality. The market does not appear to support the market for high quality x1/9 parts. Yes, there will always be a few who will spend for the good stuff. For the majority who looks at the market value of an X being a couple grand, why spend on it when there is not going to be much if any monetary return on investment.
Better own an x1/9 for what it offers than it's possible investment potential.
As for the collector car market, it is much about speculation, buy low - sell high and making a return on investment. Many of the collector cars are not being treated like art collections where they are traded among the "group" who wants and needs a place to keep their funds safe.
Few individuals are going to take their multi million dollar collector car to a track day and drive the !!!!! out of it. For those few individuals like Peter GIddings (owner of that Alfa Romeo 8C-35, ex Nuvolari GP car) that trailers it up to the track on an open trailer than drives it on track for all it's worth. As Peter told me, "racing these cars is the very best way to enjoy them as they are born to be raced."
Bernice
Consider for a moment what defines the market value of most any item, it is much about perceived value and what any buyer is willing to spend on ownership. An item's market value does not always reflect it's innate value or content.
What makes a given brand "worth" more than another brand, it is much about brand identity and market perception and what owner expectations are.
When the Lambo Miura was introduced to the world, it re-defined or created the definition of "super car" in most every way. Yet, Lambo went belly up more than once with a long history of economic struggle. In comparison, Ferrari as a brand is highly valued. Difference being Ferrari went racing and won races, Lambo did not go racing and Mr. Lambo swore that Lambo would not go racing as long as he was in control of Lambo.
It simply means winning and association of ownership has social status value and brand identity value. The investor car market places great value on these perceive values. Sill, it was not until recently that the market value of the Miura began to reflect the recognition it deserves. Much of this has come from VW group's ownership of Lambo, newer cars from Lambo and cultivation of the brand which includes racing Lambos..
No such history or future for the x1/9. It will always IMO, remain a speciality cult car of exceptional design and production qualities. Yes, there have been many famed owners of the x1/9, and other who have shown the true performance potential of this chassis, still it will not have any significant effect on it's market value. Now that Bertone is mostly gone, the car that once kept Bertone's Lira flow running is very likely going to be forgotten.
What I do not like about the low market value of the x1/9, few of the speciality parts will be reproduced in high quality. The market does not appear to support the market for high quality x1/9 parts. Yes, there will always be a few who will spend for the good stuff. For the majority who looks at the market value of an X being a couple grand, why spend on it when there is not going to be much if any monetary return on investment.
Better own an x1/9 for what it offers than it's possible investment potential.
As for the collector car market, it is much about speculation, buy low - sell high and making a return on investment. Many of the collector cars are not being treated like art collections where they are traded among the "group" who wants and needs a place to keep their funds safe.
Few individuals are going to take their multi million dollar collector car to a track day and drive the !!!!! out of it. For those few individuals like Peter GIddings (owner of that Alfa Romeo 8C-35, ex Nuvolari GP car) that trailers it up to the track on an open trailer than drives it on track for all it's worth. As Peter told me, "racing these cars is the very best way to enjoy them as they are born to be raced."
Bernice
lost opportunities
In 1978, I found a one year-old classified advertisement in the Los Angeles Times for a 1967 2000GT. I was planning a trip to LA to look for a Mercedes 450SL and thought I might check it out. I got to LA, looked at some Sls and one evening called the phone number in the classified ad. The Seller was a surgeon living in Sherman Oaks. He arranged to show me the car two days later. When I arrived, he was busy telephoning patients, following-up on their recovery. I had plenty of time to look at the car, and to wander around in his garage, where he had other interesting toys. When he finished his phone calls, he showed me a spare cylinder head that he would include with a sale. He then took me for a drive around the nearby hilly, curvy streets. He offered me the car for $15,000. We talked at length, and I offered him $12,000 which is the amount that I had wired to the Wells Fargo office just outside LAX airport. He could not accept that offer. I thanked him for his time, and said that I would make some phone calls to see if I could get more cash. The truth is that I could have simply tapped a credit card and closed the deal. But I was uncertain. That was a lot of money for an old Japanese car back in the seventies. Next day, I visited a friend in Los Angeles, and he pooh-poohed the idea of buying the 2000GT. In his opinion, only a classic European car would merit that kind of investment. A week later I headed home in a beautiful 1975 450SL, purchased from a psychiatrist employed at the VA in Century City. I enjoyed that car, drove it for two years, and made a $1000 profit when I sold it. But I couldn't forget about that Toyota 2000GT.
Three years later, I became friendly with a salesman at the local Toyota dealership. He was Japanese, and had been featured in a number of television ads for the dealership. The dealership had taken on trade a white 1967 2000gt, identical to the one I had walked away from in Sherman Oaks. He had seen me on the back lot of the dealership, admiring the 2000GT. We talked over the next few days. Very interesting guy. He offered to make enquiries of the Dealer and see what they would accept for the 2000GT. The story was, the lady owner of the car had traded it in for a new Celica, with no additional costs. Seems it was part of her divorce settlement.
The Dealer wanted $20,000 for the 2000GT. Again, for a second time, I walked away. Looking back now, I could KICK myself for not recognizing the future appreciation for the 2000GT.
An X1/9 seems spacious compared to the cramped cockpit of the 2000GT. But it is a beautiful car. One that I wish I had owned, at least for a while.
In 1978, I found a one year-old classified advertisement in the Los Angeles Times for a 1967 2000GT. I was planning a trip to LA to look for a Mercedes 450SL and thought I might check it out. I got to LA, looked at some Sls and one evening called the phone number in the classified ad. The Seller was a surgeon living in Sherman Oaks. He arranged to show me the car two days later. When I arrived, he was busy telephoning patients, following-up on their recovery. I had plenty of time to look at the car, and to wander around in his garage, where he had other interesting toys. When he finished his phone calls, he showed me a spare cylinder head that he would include with a sale. He then took me for a drive around the nearby hilly, curvy streets. He offered me the car for $15,000. We talked at length, and I offered him $12,000 which is the amount that I had wired to the Wells Fargo office just outside LAX airport. He could not accept that offer. I thanked him for his time, and said that I would make some phone calls to see if I could get more cash. The truth is that I could have simply tapped a credit card and closed the deal. But I was uncertain. That was a lot of money for an old Japanese car back in the seventies. Next day, I visited a friend in Los Angeles, and he pooh-poohed the idea of buying the 2000GT. In his opinion, only a classic European car would merit that kind of investment. A week later I headed home in a beautiful 1975 450SL, purchased from a psychiatrist employed at the VA in Century City. I enjoyed that car, drove it for two years, and made a $1000 profit when I sold it. But I couldn't forget about that Toyota 2000GT.
Three years later, I became friendly with a salesman at the local Toyota dealership. He was Japanese, and had been featured in a number of television ads for the dealership. The dealership had taken on trade a white 1967 2000gt, identical to the one I had walked away from in Sherman Oaks. He had seen me on the back lot of the dealership, admiring the 2000GT. We talked over the next few days. Very interesting guy. He offered to make enquiries of the Dealer and see what they would accept for the 2000GT. The story was, the lady owner of the car had traded it in for a new Celica, with no additional costs. Seems it was part of her divorce settlement.
The Dealer wanted $20,000 for the 2000GT. Again, for a second time, I walked away. Looking back now, I could KICK myself for not recognizing the future appreciation for the 2000GT.
An X1/9 seems spacious compared to the cramped cockpit of the 2000GT. But it is a beautiful car. One that I wish I had owned, at least for a while.
Cool car. I read where they cut the top off of two of them for You Only Live Twice because Sean Connery couldn't fit in one.
shonan19328
SUN RISING COUNTRY, JAPAN
Accident
This June 8th, a 2000GT has accident in Japan,
Mountain area, Falling tree hit 2000gt, crushed.
I understand that Compensation is going on.
Market price of 2000Gt will be now around $400000.
http://news.happy-affiliate.com/国内/トヨタ-2000gt-廃車-事故/
Nobi Amada
JAPAN
This June 8th, a 2000GT has accident in Japan,
Mountain area, Falling tree hit 2000gt, crushed.
I understand that Compensation is going on.
Market price of 2000Gt will be now around $400000.
http://news.happy-affiliate.com/国内/トヨタ-2000gt-廃車-事故/
Nobi Amada
JAPAN