I think I found motorcycle engine for an X
- Thread starter TajMan
- Start date
Having built and own a 2008 Gen II Hayabusa turbo, I think there are a lot easier ways to get 200+ hp in the back of an X. Any decent turbo kit for a 'busa or any other bike is going to run $3500 and up, plus the cost of the engine itself. The Honda conversions people have done are likely more reliable and even more tunable (Matt, somebody weigh in, please). Remember most sportbikes have a limited and narrow torque band. They use revs to get the HP, but the mass is low enough on a bike; they can move that mass efficiently.
You could still use a 'busa or Zx-14 engine and take advantage of the lower revs and higher torque than a liter bike engine. You can find plenty of these motors in Lotus 7's in Great Britain if you search the web. They do put those motors aligned along the centerline of the vehicle, not across it as you might try in an X.
If you are serious of track day use only, you could do a solid axle set up like the C- and D-sports racers of the 1970s and 1980s. Those cars did not have a whole lot of rear suspension travel, though. Where's Steve Hoelscher (sp) when we need him?
Steve
You could still use a 'busa or Zx-14 engine and take advantage of the lower revs and higher torque than a liter bike engine. You can find plenty of these motors in Lotus 7's in Great Britain if you search the web. They do put those motors aligned along the centerline of the vehicle, not across it as you might try in an X.
If you are serious of track day use only, you could do a solid axle set up like the C- and D-sports racers of the 1970s and 1980s. Those cars did not have a whole lot of rear suspension travel, though. Where's Steve Hoelscher (sp) when we need him?
Steve
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Just for giggles, I gotta agree...
If I were gonna do this I would build a complete space-frame chassis and pop a body completely out of fiberglass... or the new millennium version in carbon-fiber.
Ya gotta really love the 'busa engine to do this... and tow it wherever ya wanna run it!
If I were gonna do this I would build a complete space-frame chassis and pop a body completely out of fiberglass... or the new millennium version in carbon-fiber.
Ya gotta really love the 'busa engine to do this... and tow it wherever ya wanna run it!
I'm still toying with the idea of a Yamaha Warrior XV1700 engine, rebuilt with different pistons and turbo'd for 160HP 160TQ under 5K rpms!
I am turboTaj I love the turbos,
and I like building unique and one of a kind things, proof of concept
I'll likely be in spitballing stages for awhile, but I love all this..
I am turboTaj I love the turbos,
and I like building unique and one of a kind things, proof of concept
I'll likely be in spitballing stages for awhile, but I love all this..
I met a guy yesterday that gave me a great deal on some X parts he had a 77 and a 79 parting out one,
he's building a Lemons car out of an X and said he's using a Rotax snowmobile motor (100HP at under 8,000rpm).. mated to a cheap car 5-speed trans (from FWD car, maybe he said a Neon)
he's building a Lemons car out of an X and said he's using a Rotax snowmobile motor (100HP at under 8,000rpm).. mated to a cheap car 5-speed trans (from FWD car, maybe he said a Neon)
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
I've seen and heard of mating a number of...
"dissimilar" and orphan parts... but this one takes the proverbial cake!
You guys are CRAZY and I can't wait to see what you come up with... Just don't expect to find any Hayabusa/Yamaha/Mazda/Toyota/Rotax/Neon/Turbo experts on this site!
Yur on your own!
POST FOTOS!
"dissimilar" and orphan parts... but this one takes the proverbial cake!
You guys are CRAZY and I can't wait to see what you come up with... Just don't expect to find any Hayabusa/Yamaha/Mazda/Toyota/Rotax/Neon/Turbo experts on this site!
Yur on your own!
POST FOTOS!
Hammer square peg "B" into round hole "A"
HI, I am new to the forum and the X word. I am also the nut that is building the Neon transferred Skidoo powered 79 X for Lemons. Once I get going I will start a build thread with lots of pics. I bought the car (cars actually) specifically to build an oddball Lemons car. A 79 rolling chassis stripped of almost everything but the suspension and an almost complete 77 without the motor and trans all for a staggering $100. The previous owner was going to swap most of the 77 into the 79 as the 77 is a rusted out pile and the 79 is an Arizona car with minimal rust. I took a few parts off of the 77 for spares and I am currently trying part the rest out to put towards the Lemons balance. Let me know if you are looking for anything.
When I bough the car I was originally going to swap in a motorcycle engine but ended up with with the rotax 583 out of an early 90s Skidoo. I have read that they are bulletproof and best of all i found one with carbs, exhaust and cdi cheap. From what I have found online the 583 puts out 90-100 hp at around 7800 rpm, much lower peak than a street bike. It is liquid cooled so i will use the X's radiator and plumbing. I am not as worried about the "lack" of torque as it is a track car and once on the track the idea is to keep moving. My teammates and I are all 2stroke dirt bike riders so keeping it in the right gear and on the pipe is not a new concept for us.
The transaxle is out of a 96 DOHC 2.0 neon. It is all cable controlled so linkage shouldn't be too bad. The X's Inner cv bearings are almost a perfect fit into the Neons cup. It's close enough that I will probably run them for some test and tune, maybe the race. The clutch on the NVG350 is a modular unit that comes riveted to the flywheel and rides on the trans input shaft and gets bolted a flexplate attached to the crank.
The plan is to build a cradle to mount the engine to the bell housing on the trans and machine a tapered adapter to go on the crank in place of the clutch and bolt to the flexplate. Both the engine and trans will then be mounted to the frame and voila a wicked light, 2stroke, 5 speed 100hp X1/9. The added rotating mass of the clutch is going to do interesting things to a revving 2 stroke and I hope the gearing of the transmission is not too wide dropping the engine out of the power band when we upshift. The brakes will also have to be upgraded as you're not going to get much engine braking out of a 2stroke coming into a corner either. I have most of my parts and as soon as I am done insulating my shop I will get started on it and post pics as i go on a new thread. What could go wrong.....
HI, I am new to the forum and the X word. I am also the nut that is building the Neon transferred Skidoo powered 79 X for Lemons. Once I get going I will start a build thread with lots of pics. I bought the car (cars actually) specifically to build an oddball Lemons car. A 79 rolling chassis stripped of almost everything but the suspension and an almost complete 77 without the motor and trans all for a staggering $100. The previous owner was going to swap most of the 77 into the 79 as the 77 is a rusted out pile and the 79 is an Arizona car with minimal rust. I took a few parts off of the 77 for spares and I am currently trying part the rest out to put towards the Lemons balance. Let me know if you are looking for anything.
When I bough the car I was originally going to swap in a motorcycle engine but ended up with with the rotax 583 out of an early 90s Skidoo. I have read that they are bulletproof and best of all i found one with carbs, exhaust and cdi cheap. From what I have found online the 583 puts out 90-100 hp at around 7800 rpm, much lower peak than a street bike. It is liquid cooled so i will use the X's radiator and plumbing. I am not as worried about the "lack" of torque as it is a track car and once on the track the idea is to keep moving. My teammates and I are all 2stroke dirt bike riders so keeping it in the right gear and on the pipe is not a new concept for us.
The transaxle is out of a 96 DOHC 2.0 neon. It is all cable controlled so linkage shouldn't be too bad. The X's Inner cv bearings are almost a perfect fit into the Neons cup. It's close enough that I will probably run them for some test and tune, maybe the race. The clutch on the NVG350 is a modular unit that comes riveted to the flywheel and rides on the trans input shaft and gets bolted a flexplate attached to the crank.
The plan is to build a cradle to mount the engine to the bell housing on the trans and machine a tapered adapter to go on the crank in place of the clutch and bolt to the flexplate. Both the engine and trans will then be mounted to the frame and voila a wicked light, 2stroke, 5 speed 100hp X1/9. The added rotating mass of the clutch is going to do interesting things to a revving 2 stroke and I hope the gearing of the transmission is not too wide dropping the engine out of the power band when we upshift. The brakes will also have to be upgraded as you're not going to get much engine braking out of a 2stroke coming into a corner either. I have most of my parts and as soon as I am done insulating my shop I will get started on it and post pics as i go on a new thread. What could go wrong.....
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Well, Mr. Lemon... I guess this board would...
be the closest thing for your project and you'll probably fit in with most of us except for the "purists"... HA!
I was reading an article recently about what one should call a car such as this... and the general consensus was the BODY determines what it is, because that is how it is recognized from a distance.
So... "Welcome Home"... and this looks like its gonna be FUN to WATCH!
be the closest thing for your project and you'll probably fit in with most of us except for the "purists"... HA!
I was reading an article recently about what one should call a car such as this... and the general consensus was the BODY determines what it is, because that is how it is recognized from a distance.
So... "Welcome Home"... and this looks like its gonna be FUN to WATCH!
Haha!
LemonXer,
great you found this
It's too bad you don't have a stock X transmission to sell me..
My yellow car is a great driver, but I should have put a new clutch kit in when I installed the trans since the TOB makes noise, and also it leaks a little trans fluid still and is hard/notchy to shift sometimes/often.. so it really needs a good rebuild when its out for the clutch job..
but with recent motorcycle accident I was in.. injured not able to do great manual labor work for awhile.. I'd be better off selling the yellow car for what I can asap since that was the original and eventual goal anyway
a once-upon-a-time view inside my old shop, 79 X and 77 Lancia Scorpion:
LemonXer,
great you found this
It's too bad you don't have a stock X transmission to sell me..
My yellow car is a great driver, but I should have put a new clutch kit in when I installed the trans since the TOB makes noise, and also it leaks a little trans fluid still and is hard/notchy to shift sometimes/often.. so it really needs a good rebuild when its out for the clutch job..
but with recent motorcycle accident I was in.. injured not able to do great manual labor work for awhile.. I'd be better off selling the yellow car for what I can asap since that was the original and eventual goal anyway
a once-upon-a-time view inside my old shop, 79 X and 77 Lancia Scorpion:
bikesandcars
True Classic
lol, I had this idea 2 years ago but didn't follow through, nice to see someone else as crazy as me.
After looking at mating options between a snowmobile motor and a traditional gearbox and all the related issues like bell housings, crank output shaft adapters, rpm differences, etc I even considered the centrifugal belt drive system (assuming changing a belt every night after racing) but thought it may overheat and wear out over 7 hours racing.
Best of luck!
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Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
Looks like one of those old "Barns" with stuff...
stowed away for years and years...
(And I thought I was "sick"...)
stowed away for years and years...
(And I thought I was "sick"...)
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Set aside the dollar figure for LeMons racing. Once your LeMons racers is done, there will be several thousand dollars of race car. The $500 crap heap racer is a myth.
LeMons has become real endurance racing at real race speeds. When building your LeMons racer, make sure and do everything possible to assure the oily bits are as perfect as possible and completely race ready or it will fail at some point during the event. This means a lot of wrenching and struggle at the track. If you're into this kinda thing, ok, I'm not.
Don't be surprised to discover a LeMons racer doing a buck fifty down the front straight. Currently the only item that limits the speeds and lap times of a good LeMons racer, tires. Nothing under DOT 180 is allowed. There is no minimum weight, most any creative mods are possible and often encouraged and more. Use the best plumbing, wiring, hardware and all related possible. Keep in mind you're building a real and serious race car on every level. Your LeMons racer will be run to it's limit hour after hour if you're racing properly.
Regarding safety and the exxe, keep the top on it. Do not make it into a open top race car as it will make passing safety a LOT more difficult. Read and follow the safety cage and related carefully as they take this stuff very seriously. Roll cages that meet SCCA will not be good enough for LeMons racing. Install a real FIA certified fuel cell with all the proper related plumbing. Fuel leaks can easily turn into a race track toaster and this has happened more than one due to inept and poor build and judgement on the team's part. Install a proper race seat with high quality six point harness and have all the drivers race with a Hans device and proper certified helmet with fire tolerant suit and undies including sox.
No dripping fluid is tolerated, no coolant which mean running water only.
As for snow mobile powered LeMons racers, it has been done. There was a Miata built by Evil Genius racing complete with pull start and belt drive named Balto. It worked fine and did well. It was also fast enough due to lower weight.
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=15354'
The level of drivers and teams at LeMons is extremely varied. There are pro racer folks from NASCAR to 24 Hours of LeMans and more that race at LeMons to folks who have never put a wheel on a race track. More than a few pro drivers have raced at LeMons and enjoyed it a lot which has caused them to return. They do not publicize that they are running at LeMons.
"What Could Go Wrong"
-That is up to you and all related to your team. Everything If stuff is allowed to happen and it will (pure Murphy). The idea or IMO the goal is to do everything possible to prevent Murphy from biting all involved.
Bernice
LeMons has become real endurance racing at real race speeds. When building your LeMons racer, make sure and do everything possible to assure the oily bits are as perfect as possible and completely race ready or it will fail at some point during the event. This means a lot of wrenching and struggle at the track. If you're into this kinda thing, ok, I'm not.
Don't be surprised to discover a LeMons racer doing a buck fifty down the front straight. Currently the only item that limits the speeds and lap times of a good LeMons racer, tires. Nothing under DOT 180 is allowed. There is no minimum weight, most any creative mods are possible and often encouraged and more. Use the best plumbing, wiring, hardware and all related possible. Keep in mind you're building a real and serious race car on every level. Your LeMons racer will be run to it's limit hour after hour if you're racing properly.
Regarding safety and the exxe, keep the top on it. Do not make it into a open top race car as it will make passing safety a LOT more difficult. Read and follow the safety cage and related carefully as they take this stuff very seriously. Roll cages that meet SCCA will not be good enough for LeMons racing. Install a real FIA certified fuel cell with all the proper related plumbing. Fuel leaks can easily turn into a race track toaster and this has happened more than one due to inept and poor build and judgement on the team's part. Install a proper race seat with high quality six point harness and have all the drivers race with a Hans device and proper certified helmet with fire tolerant suit and undies including sox.
No dripping fluid is tolerated, no coolant which mean running water only.
As for snow mobile powered LeMons racers, it has been done. There was a Miata built by Evil Genius racing complete with pull start and belt drive named Balto. It worked fine and did well. It was also fast enough due to lower weight.
http://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/viewtopic.php?id=15354'
The level of drivers and teams at LeMons is extremely varied. There are pro racer folks from NASCAR to 24 Hours of LeMans and more that race at LeMons to folks who have never put a wheel on a race track. More than a few pro drivers have raced at LeMons and enjoyed it a lot which has caused them to return. They do not publicize that they are running at LeMons.
"What Could Go Wrong"
-That is up to you and all related to your team. Everything If stuff is allowed to happen and it will (pure Murphy). The idea or IMO the goal is to do everything possible to prevent Murphy from biting all involved.
Bernice
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