Preparing For Dallara Body Kit

Looks great

This thread truly illustrates the time, patience and attention to detail required to properly apply one of these kits.

I've had 100 clients ask me for the price to do a Dallara conversion (correctly) and nearly all of them lost their breath once we quoted.

Great job, it appears you're doing it very well and very "right".

-Matt
 
This thread truly illustrates the time, patience and attention to detail required to properly apply one of these kits.
I've had 100 clients ask me for the price to do a Dallara conversion (correctly) and nearly all of them lost their breath once we quoted.
Great job, it appears you're doing it very well and very "right".

-Matt

Thanks, Matt!

If it wasn't for the guide pics you posted in the 'Restoration Inspiration" thread, I would be having a much harder time of it, for certain. Not sure I would have undertaken the challenge without that reference material, honestly.

Cut up the right quarter after work today, & rough fitted the panel. Further metal will be removed. Especially in the inner arch. Left the duct framework in place until I figure out the best way to address the connection.

Dallara_Wheel_Arches00031.jpg


Gonna take a little more time to work on the rear pockets, due to the rust & fibreglass patching I did some years ago.

Panel sits a little higher than I originally measured, but suspension hasn't settled. Use the air intake grooves and the small notch at the rear quarter to align the panel.


Dallara_Rear_Fender00023a.jpg



front top will need some finagling

DallaraRearFender00056.jpg


Used long studs I had bought from Serpent auto and 7 factory spacers (1.25") to set the wheel as is -

DallaraRearFender00042.jpg


- which leaves 1/4" gap between wheel and inner arch.

Dallara_Suspension00019.jpg


I'm going to assume I can come out another 1/2", since the tire will pivot inwards at the top as suspension travels. So, I'm going to order 1.75" spacers with 58.1 inner lip, 73mm outer lip from Charlie (Serpent Auto). Unless my thinking is erroneous, and that is insufficient.
 
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I would say at least a 1/2" additional spacer will do. Personally I would wait until everything is fitted, the car down where you want it and then decide on a spacer. At the current track width you won't see much difference in handling. Going to aluminum spacers will be the thing given all that steel unsprung weight.

Where you have the gap I would carry the top line of the fiberglass panel forward and put a tighter radius (or even no radius) at the front top corner as the blend to the door. This would be more consistent with the way the rest of the panel comes near the door opening.

It is going to be a fine looking beast when you are done. Emphasis on beast :) in a good way.

Stupid question (and one I was going to ask last night but didn't) do you really need to cut away all of the surface skin like you did? I know from Matt's post you need to make a new wheel housing barrel, just wondered about the area to the front and rear of the wheel opening.

All in all looking good and I am sure the end result will be excellent.

Keep the images and commentary coming!
 
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Also curious about the cutouts

It seems like you'd lose a lot of structural strength cutting out the skin that the fiberglass won't be buying back. Regardless it is cool to see behind the panel area. Really enjoying your process and photo progress though.
 
Looking good.....

Hi Hussein. Yeah, it's looking good....

I think perhaps a 1.75" spacer may be a tad too much. The top of the wheel wont pivot in as much as you think it will.

Before you order the spacers, remove the coilovers from the car and take the springs out. Then re-assemble the coilovers and put them back in the car. Then you will be able to jack the rear of the car up and down throughout the entire suspension travel to check for tire clearance at all points. Stack stock spacers or washers to simulate a spacer. Do on both sides in case there is a difference. At this point use a shorter bump stop than you intend to run (this will allow for your final bump stop being compressed a bit if you hit a really big bump).

Aim for a final ride height that both looks good visually and is low enough for good handling. But ideally you want a final ride height that is about halfway through the suspension travel. Remember that a ride height that only leaves you with an inch of compression travel until it bottoms will lead to really crummy handling....Suspension travel IS a good thing.

Yeah you will have to find a happy balance and it probably wont be easy. To do so without having to resort to helper springs will be even more difficult.

When choosing a spacer thickness, allow a little extra clearance in case you end up later having to adjust camber, as this will effect the final tire position.

Of course repeat this exersize in the front. Check steering lock to lock throughout the entire suspension travel. And leave some room again for camber and caster adjustments.

You said earlier you might go to an 8" spring in the front to lower it some more. This wont help - it will only change the position of the lower spring perch. Think about it. And with about 6" of suspension travel, you will be very close to coil bind with an 8" spring.

Best of luck. If you need any help, dont hesitate to ask. Doug
 
It seems like you'd lose a lot of structural strength cutting out the skin that the fiberglass won't be buying back. Regardless it is cool to see behind the panel area. Really enjoying your process and photo progress though.

Most of the exterior body work really adds very little strength to this or most cars, particularly the fenders. Although he may be losing a little it really isn't as much as you might think.
 
I would say at least a 1/2" additional spacer will do. Personally I would wait until everything is fitted, the car down where you want it and then decide on a spacer. At the current track width you won't see much difference in handling. Going to aluminum spacers will be the thing given all that steel unsprung weight.

Where you have the gap I would carry the top line of the fiberglass panel forward and put a tighter radius (or even no radius) at the front top corner as the blend to the door. This would be more consistent with the way the rest of the panel comes near the door opening.

It is going to be a fine looking beast when you are done. Emphasis on beast :) in a good way.

Stupid question (and one I was going to ask last night but didn't) do you really need to cut away all of the surface skin like you did? I know from Matt's post you need to make a new wheel housing barrel, just wondered about the area to the front and rear of the wheel opening.

All in all looking good and I am sure the end result will be excellent.

Keep the images and commentary coming!

Thanks, Karl.

It's not necessary to remove all the surface skin to physically fit the panels. You could get away with removing the wheel arch lip, some of the wheel housing, and the back corner of the wheel well.

However, that would leave much unnecessary material.

Chopped out the left quarter after work. Cut out the wheel arch lip first with the sawsall to separate the panels, then used metal shears to remove the flat panels.

Took out extra strip of wheel housing for clearance. May cut more later.

DallaraWheelArches00031d.jpg


Dallara_Wheel_Arches00031a.jpg


Ground back the inner surface of the panels to allow closer fit to the sheet metal. The fibreglass is particularly thick in the contour shift areas around the ducts.

DallaraRearFender00057.jpg




Cut up the stock duct for now to act as a through passage



Aligned the forward section first - about 1/4" back from the door jamb

Dallara_Rear_Fender00023.jpg


Then one in the top center to hang the panel



...checking the alignment at the rear bottom

DallaraRearFender00023h.jpg


Then worked my way around from the bottom front to the back



with the suspension settled, it's at 23 3/8" on both sides

Dallara_Suspension00018.jpg


Took it out to the Y, no tire / wheel arch contact with two passengers, however I only have 1" spacers in each side right now.

Dallara00047.jpg


Tomorrow, I'll remove a rear coil so & can swing the arm through the full travel range & see it I can check for clearance. I can't get more than 1.25" spacing with the wheel studs I have now.
 
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Hi Hussein. Yeah, it's looking good....
I think perhaps a 1.75" spacer may be a tad too much. The top of the wheel wont pivot in as much as you think it will.
Best of luck. If you need any help, dont hesitate to ask. Doug

Yeah - I just emailed Charlie again & said go back with the 1.5" depth - he's gonna love me - :rolleyes:

The bump stops are integral to the bilsteins. I'll keep the 10" coils - I forgot our previous conversation re binding. I have the strut inserts fully seated in the top plates, so I can't gain any further drop up there. I can lower it slightly (maybe 1/2") without the spring going 'floppy' on me. I don't really mind the slightly higher ride height - it makes it more practical in my area where there are high speed humps and large potholes/dips in the roadway & parking lot entrances.

I'm going to take the coil out & check travel / clearance tomorrow. Can only go 1.25", as I have no way to bolt the wheel beyond that depth.
 
You could add a cardboard template to the outside of the wheel to simulate the added offset. If the opening is consistent then you should be able to use a pretty small part and rotate the wheel back and forth through its range of vertical motion.
 
Not sure I follow...

Can only go 1.25", as I have no way to bolt the wheel beyond that depth.

You can get 80mm studs and NUT the wheel. There may not be BOLTS available to go beyond 1.25", but you can get a thicker spacer on there if you need to with other methods.

I vastly prefer the stud method, since you have something to hang the wheel on and you're not trying to juggle the weight of the wheel, its position, and a lug nut.

Pete
 
You can get 80mm studs and NUT the wheel. There may not be BOLTS available to go beyond 1.25", but you can get a thicker spacer on there if you need to with other methods.

I vastly prefer the stud method, since you have something to hang the wheel on and you're not trying to juggle the weight of the wheel, its position, and a lug nut.

Pete

I have 2 1/2" studs :) What I did today was loosen the stud in the hub, to allow wheel nut purchase with the 1.5" spacing. Not safe to put weight on, but fine for test purposes.

DallaraSuspension00001.jpg


So. Measuring the strut insert travel from upper spring perch to spring seat, (with no spring & no gaiter installed) have 10" total free length, 5.5" inch fully compressed. So 4.5" total travel.

Installed in the car, I get 7" length before the suspension is fully compressed, so only 3" available travel.

At that point, the tire was just scraping the forward inner lip

Dallara_Suspension00006.jpg


So, I made a brace to push the arch outward

Dallara_Wheel_Arches00002.jpg


which wasn't enough, so I added a mid section brace, and filed the inner fender lip.

DallaraWheelArches00030.jpg


When I make the fender support liners, that will hold them properly.

With that, I have 1/4" space fully compressed.

Dallara_Suspension00005.jpg


Repeated the process for the right side, checking travel & clearance with no spring, then installing spring. More clearance in the right forward arch, so adding the braces was enough, didn't need to file the inner lip.

I get 10" from the hub center to the fender lip fully compressed.

Dallara_Suspension00023.jpg


Full drop, it's 15.5" hub center to lip

Dallara_Suspension00017.jpg



Sitting at normal position I get 12.25" hub center to lip.

Dallara_Suspension00022.jpg



Slight problem with both rear Coilovers - offset on lower cap was off by about 1/8". Had to use the BFH to reset the caps to prevent contact with the CV and bolts

Dallara_Suspension00020.jpg


Rear Coilovers with 10" 140/250 springs installed. Set with spring only just resting on perches, no preload.

Dallara_Suspension00000.jpg


Bought 4 73/57.1mm hubcentric rings off Amazon for 7 bucks. Had the 4 centers enlarged on the lathe to 58.3mm (2.295") at the machine shop for 10bucks.

only needed a pair for the fronts, since no spacers are used there

DallaraSuspension00011.jpg


DallaraSuspension00007.jpg


After driving, the rears settled to 22.25" ground to fender lip. I need to pretension the springs to raise it back to 23".

Next I need to start on the
 
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Spent a little time levelling out the coilover height adjustments - got the back up to 23", and the fronts just under 23". Unfortunately there is a height discrepancy in the left & right front wheel arches, so I tried to compensate a little using the coilover adjustment to balance it out.

It's been really humid here the past few days, so I took it easy after that & just fiddled around with rocker panels. I have the Fiat ones, which I feel are a little too rounded to go with the more angular lines of the Dallara lower sections. I cut them up a little to get them to align with the front & rear panels.

DallaraRearFender00058.jpg


DallaraSide00003.jpg


No rocker trim...

Dallara_Rear_Fender00023d.jpg



I like the bump out of the rocker trim, and the way they help tie the front & rear together, but these don't seem ideal.

I had a spare Volvo C30 rocker panel that I took off my Mum's C30, so I cut that up & tried it.

Dallara_Side00021.jpg


Dallara_Rocker00000.jpg


I think the harder edge of the panel is better suited to the Dallara fenders. I'll need to do some plastic weld work to the panels to get them to properly fit, and source a used rocker trim for the DS - I dont want to spend $150 for a new panel I'm just going to chop up..


If I use them, I'm undecided on whether to leave them as removable panels, or to bond them & blend into the fiberglass. I'm leaning in that direction.
 
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From the pics you have shown, I prefer the Volvo part.

Can you take two more pics from a lower vantage point so we can see the relationship of the bottom of the new fenders and how they meet the top of the rocker?

I like the stacked nature of the two separate parts at the front transition, it's hard to tell what is happening at back.

I like the notion of them not being joined and faired in, it's the difference between custom and factory. The X design used hard lines and separations to further the design definition, a fully blended look doesn't do that.

To make it right, you may end up wanting to make your own fiberglass parts to get the right relationship at the rear wheel opening whether you do the blended or stacked way of resolving the transition. Making a part out of foam and then glassing over it using epoxy resin allows you to use cheap closed cell blue foam as the basis. You can paint over the blue foam with latex paint to seal it and then use polyester resin over that as an alternative.

As always, nice work and great process. Thanks!
 
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From the pics you have shown, I prefer the Volvo part.
Can you take two more pics from a lower vantage point so we can see the relationship of the bottom of the new fenders and how they meet the top of the rocker?
I like the notion of them not being joined and faired in, it's the difference between custom and factory. The X design used hard lines and separations to further the design definition, a fully blended look doesn't do that.

Ultimately it needs to be what you want it to be regardless of what the rest of us think.

Thanks for the input Karl.

I thought I had taken lower side view pics, but apparently not. It's tricky to see the overall look against the blacktop - but the fender junction is clear - I'll take a few closeups. The rear junction is a little funky in that the top rocker line goes pretty much level back to the rear arch, but the fender crease is angled upward. That creates a division that is pronounced with the white fender / black rocker. If I keep them as removable elements, I will still paint them body color for the sake of unity.

DallaraRearFender00000.jpg



DallaraRocker00000.jpg


I'm not likely to invest the effort of fabricating my own from scratch, I still have way too much bodywork to do on the panels themselves.

Honestly, I am not looking forward to the detail bondo blending/matching work. There is much work to be done there, and at this point I don't see getting it all squared away before the weather turns too cool to complete & prime it. I was hoping to actually paint it in the Fall, have to see how that goes. The weather is so brutally humid at the moment it's affecting my overall desire to work outside at all :(
 
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Noooo... Please noooo! Leave all the rocker trim OFF!

It ruins the skinny "waist" of this "coke-bottle" design that you are so eloquently fabricating!

When the entire car is the SAME base color the front and rear will be tied again...

I think you need to step back and squint a bit... or hit the doors with some matching primer and I think you will agree.
 
Recovering from passing a kidney stone over Sun/Mon am, so taking it easy at the mo. Just futzed with the rocker trim today, plastic-welded a strip back in on the rear end to widen it slightly. Primed it for better visibility.

Dallara_Rocker00000.jpg


Dallara_Rocker00000.jpg


Going to paint them body color, but keep as separate element so I can check it out with / without when the bodywork is done.
 
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Ouch! Hope the recovery goes well.

It would be nice if the line just above the rocker trim could go away, having the clean line of the top of the rocker and then that somewhat skew line above is unfortunate. That line looked odd by itself too before the rocker was in place as it doesn't appear to have a relationship to anything.

I hope you mend well and take some time in a chair with a tall glass of water to look at and ruminate over what you have created.
 
I'm going to have to fiddle with that & see if I can clean it up.

Another low energy day, so after work I futzed with adding a front lip (Volvo 960) to square it off a little - the Dallara sides have a 'wave' to them, and angle upwards to the front edge - I want to get rid of that.

Cut the Volvo spoiler in half width wise, and removed about 2" out of the middle. I'll plastic weld tabs, etc once the overall fitment is sorted out. Don't want too much drop or I'll be scraping every speed bump

DallaraNose00088.jpg


Sides will need tapering towards the rear, to level them & compensate for the "curl".

Dallara_Front_Spoiler00001.jpg


photoshopped back corner...
Dallara_Front_Fender00049.jpg
 
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