Starter Motor Problem

Red Bull 78

Red Bull 78

True Classic
Went to take Ruby for a Beer run tonight and she won't Start. Starter barely works. So I'm thinking, I still haven't solved the Alternator Light "On" issue and low charging, so last weeks two hour night drive with the lights on ran the battery down.
Before i hooked up the Charger, I checked the battery with my VOM. 12.36 Volts, even After three failed attempts to start the car.
Guess it's New Starter time.:wall:
Well, at least I can fix everything on that side of the Engine at once.
Starter, Distributor, Oil Pressure Sensor & Vacuum lines.

Just wondering, considering the amount of work ahead, if removing the "dog bone" and loosening the motor mounts would allow me to rotate the engine away from the firewall for a little more knuckle busting room? I'm going to have her up on stands again, R & R'ing the Lugs Bolts to Studs, having some welded in to protect the old hubs from any further damage.
So much for the car show, next week. :cry::(:sad:
 
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I took my starter off this weekend in about 30 minutes

I just removed the starter this weekend from my 74. I tried to do it last weekend and got 2 bolts out and got stuck. Put it back together, read the manual some, and looked here. Realized there are 3 bolts. Then yesterday I got the car in the air and in 30 minutes I had the starter off. I then took the alternator off too, as both looked like they were installed at the factory 39 years ago. I took them to this shop in San Francisco called ASE (got their name from 2 different Italian car repair places) for a rebuild, and they had both the starter and the alternator in stock, $85 each! Now all I have to do is get them back on the car...installation is the reverse of removal, right?
 
Yeah! That's what they All Say!

danny said:
...installation is the reverse of removal, right?
Click to expand...

:laugh: Taking bolts OUT is easy. No mention of how you need four hands to hold things in position to get them back into place.:rolleyes2:
 
Check the 2 ground locations...

1. Make sure your ground wire from the battery to chassis is 4Ga.
2. Check that the ground that goes from the transmission casing to chassis ground (underneath rear of car) is good.

Also, check that your positive terminal is clean.

If someone can hold a meter across your battery when you start the car, and if the voltage reading dips below (say) 11 volts while cranking, your battery is BAD.
Some might say dips below 12volts, but 11 volts is pretty significant.
 
Red... I hate to tell you of the 3 weeks of...

frustration I had when my starter gave me problems.

I'll give you the answer FIRST and then fill in the blanks. It just may be your problem as well.

Find the "braided" GROUND STRAP at the LR of the car connecting the TRANS to the CHASSIS. Remove, clean with sandpaper or wire brush, re-install and re-torque tightly.

This is the ONLY ground connection from the engine back to the battery and if it is dirty, then the alternator cannot recharge the battery well and the starter's current draw is too much for the only other ground ling, which is the throttle cable!

Once the engine is running... test the battery to see about 13.7 to 14.1 volts are at the battery. This indicates a good alternator and a battery at rest, as Greg said, should be about 12.5 or better.

(A bit of history... I spent 3 weeks chasing all the POSITIVE wiring from the starter to the ignition switch and on and on as well as taking the battery, starter and alternator to a rebuilder to test, only to find everything was in good working order!)

One other thing I did was install a SECOND ground strap using a battery cable with two large terminals at each end and connected it to the cam cover on TOP of the engine (out of the muck and mire) to the firewall. This problem will never haunt me again.

HTH...

Oh... a big P.S. Many moons ago Bruce at Bruce's Parts Bin in NJ once said, "If you find you are constantly replacing your throttle cable because its brittle and breaks, you've got a bad GROUND STRAP as the throttle cable is now the only source the engine has to chassis ground..."
 
Way Ahead Of You

bbrown said:
1. Make sure your ground wire from the battery to chassis is 4Ga. New Wire done while waiting on Brake parts.
2. Check that the ground that goes from the transmission casing to chassis ground (underneath rear of car) is good. Same Here.

Also, check that your positive terminal is clean. Brand New Cable End here. Cable looks fairly "new" and solid, no rust or corrosion seen.

If someone can hold a meter across your battery when you start the car, and if the voltage reading dips below (say) 11 volts while cranking, your battery is BAD.
Some might say dips below 12volts, but 11 volts is pretty significant.
Click to expand...
As of today, I've never put the Charger on it and the old Battery has held 12.3 over Winter, since I parked it last August and during Many Starts while working on it and driving it around town for the last few weeks. The Alternator only puts out about 13.5 Volts and the Charge Light stays "On", even at 4000 RPM. So something isn't "right" somewhere.
Tonight, when I got home from work, Lights came "on" but went dim and nothing else happened when I turned the Key. I jumped it from my Geo and it started right up. Once at the shop, turned it Off and tried it again. Not even a "Click". That says Solenoid to me.
I'm thinking the Weak Battery, doesn't have enough Amps to POP the old Solenoid, but once it does the Starter Motor itself, is still "good". But for how long ??? I'm just going to R & R the whole Starter while I'm in there, so I won't have to worry about it anymore.
 
Red Bull 78 said:
Not even a "Click". That says Solenoid to me.
Click to expand...


I had an issue with my ignition switch - it was bad. Put in a new one, and perfect..


Oh, and I bought a nice gear reduction starter from Csaba - very nice unit, smaller and spins faster than the OE unit. I highly recommend it.


Cheers
 
All My Ground Wires Have Been Upgraded

Connection points and Bolts sanded to to clean metal. After Install, painted over all connections with Rust Restorer Primer, then Rustoleum Red to match Inside trunk paint, to prevent further rust issues.
To me, everything points to the Solenoid.
 
What I would do...

I would not assume the starter is bad, nor even the battery. Without a charging system that doesn't have a red light glowing, you really don't know how well it's working. I'd charge the battery and try again...

But I'd probably also have the battery tested after a charge. It could be good and discharged, or bad and discharged. But you won't know which until you charge it and test it. :nod:
 
A somewhat common issue with the X as it gets older is that the wiring connections oxidize and deteriorate.

When symptoms like yours arise, the cause has been in some cases that, because of said deterioration, not enough juice is gets to the solenoid to trip it and begin the starting process.

You can check yours by applying a voltmeter at the solenoid's connection to the ignition switch while a helper works the switch at your command.

Here are old write-ups on refurbing the solenoid:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1199665208/Starter+solenoid+rebuild+info

Here's a hard start relay kit that several forum members have installed and seen good results:
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?posts/81879/

Here's Jeff's thread on the solenoid:
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/12357/
 
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sorry pics are dead in my old thread, only pic I can find back is this one:
pretty easy to tear down and "rebuild", been rock solid ever since, although it has started to turn over a bit slow lately, maybe that's my compression bump.....

solenoidguts_zps9bddd1c4.jpg
 
Thanks For All The Helpful Suggestions

I'm sure many "X" owners will benefit from them, but from day one of The Red Bull Project, considering the Age of the car and the time it sat idle in a barn, it has been my intention to REPLACE rather than Repair any major part that is causing trouble.
I LIKE fixing problems. I HATE fixing the same problem TWICE.
These suggestions will give me many things to look at while i'm replacing the Starter.
If I'd been looking for something "Cheap" to work on, I wouldn't have bought a 35 year old X 1/9.
If any of you Professional Rebuilders are interested in any of the Parts I take off "Ruby", you are welcome to them for the cost of Shipping.
 
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