Rear engine Fiat Motors I've had over the years.....#2

[Frank L. Di Gioia]

This is a vintage mechanical fuel injection system that was attached to a fabricated Fiat 8-port head. Someone with a lot of welding skill and time took a Fiat 850 head and cut/built-up the intake area to form an 8-port head. Runners were a very straight shot to the valves and the bolt on butterfly system fit well. Whatever class the motor was to have run in must have had restriction rules as the butterflies were only 30mm. The "bundle of snake" headers indicate a mid engine mounting of the motor. Missing is/was probably a magneto running off the camshaft end with the pressure pump/regulator. The cam chain housing is very nicely cast and the pump drive comes off the camshaft bolt head. The blue tape covers a fuel return line outlet. Memory fails me but there was a very simple idle jet arrangement of some type. Otherwise it was set for WFO throttle operation. I never ran the configuration but traded the injection system to Michael Feyl (Scuderina Topolino in Germany) who has two PBS Sports racers. I started to set the head to accept two 32mm Weber DCOF carbs but as usual traded it for some other Fiat stuff I had to have. It was acquired from a seller in Colorado and might have been part of the Dr. Knee collection.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Very cool. The fabrication work that went into that head is amazing, not to mention everything else.

I have a friend that once worked for the L.A. Fiat dealer and drove the dealer-backed racer competitively for some time. Then he decided to get into racing for himself and built a complete "sports racer" from scratch in his garage (not uncommon in those days). The engine/trans was Fiat (850 I think) and he wanted to mount dual Webers on it. So he made a intake manifold from a big block of aluminum using only a hacksaw, file, and drill. He raced it for many years, continuing into vintage racing with it eventually. All the while still running that home built intake manifold.

 

[Frank L. Di Gioia]

Hi Jeff,
That's what I've always loved about the Fiat world. You can hack, weld, cut, cast till your hearts content and still not be guilty of sacrilege!

 

[ramona300]

I have spent the past week welding my aluminium intake manifolds. Welding then grinding off or being creative with the die grinder. It's cheap and easy with modern technology, just time-consuming. The only downside is accidentally picking up the aluminium bit you just welded!

 

[Frank L. Di Gioia]

FRONT COVER CASTING SOURCE SOLVED!! As I pointed out in my description the front cover casting was of very high quality. On thumbing through various sites I came across the attached pic of the Abarth hemi-head motor. The front casting for the cam chain cover was used for the FI drive. The tachometer drive is the FI pump power source.

 

[Hackerjay]

Keep posting these engines. It is fun to read and amazing how many variants people have come up with over the years.

 

[Jeff Stich]

FRONT COVER CASTING SOURCE SOLVED!! As I pointed out in my description the front cover casting was of very high quality. On thumbing through various sites I came across the attached pic of the Abarth hemi-head motor. The front casting for the cam chain cover was used for the FI drive. The tachometer drive is the FI pump power source.

The front timing cover was modeled after the Abarth piece by PBS Engineering and used with the gear-driven pump extension (for dry sump oiling, & later for a FI prototype) & a converted magneto for use on Fiat 850-engined hydroplane drag boats. I have a few of the covers & pump units, along with 1 magneto & a few versions of PBS's FI prototype manifolds to be used on their 8-port cylinder head. I even have one of the trophies won by one of the boats, I'll try to get pics of them all in the next few days.

I think on one of the Sports Racer websites there's also mention of the race boats & a few blurry black & white photos.

 

[Frank L. Di Gioia]

Thanks for the history lesson Jeff. Growing up in SoCal made all this stuff seem common and everyday back then. My original PBS 8-port head
was one of the first batch PBS made. Clark Adams told me about the boat racing use!

 

[Jeff Stich]

Growing up in SoCal made all this stuff seem common and everyday back then.

Indeed. As a teen I used to occasionally go watch the drag boat races, which were held at the old Marine Stadium in Alamitos Bay, Long Beach. I had no idea at the time that some of the boats were Fiat 850-powered.

My original PBS 8-port head was one of the first batch PBS made. Clark Adams told me about the boat racing use!

The PBS 8-Port head that I bought (as a lot) with the timing cover/pump/magneto & early FI assemblies is also an early "Series 1" type head, likely from the same batch as yours.

The head itself is currently stashed away in storage, but I did manage to remember to take some photos of the timing covers, pumps, magneto & various prototype fuel injection manifolds. No injectors were included, but a fuel distribution hub (central fitting & 4 hoses) was still in the box. The magneto was converted from an old outboard engine. This fits into the upper hole on the timing cover, & gets driven via a toothed fitting that goes over the 850 camshaft end bolt & engages a small gear which, in turn, drives a gear on the magneto shaft.



To be continued...

 

[Jeff Stich]

The first set of intake manifolds has very short runners, with what look like motorcycle-type throttle bodies mounted on top of them.



The second set has slightly longer 2-section runners that bolt together at a central mounting flange, with butterflies & some crude linkage in the center. You'll notice that one of the upper sections is slightly taller than the other, this is because it hasn't (yet) had the runners cut to length & welded together at its base plate.



The third set has long 1-piece runners that look like raw castings with minor machining work done here & there. These were mounted on the cylinder head when I bought it.

 

[Frank L. Di Gioia]

Indeed. As a teen I used to occasionally go watch the drag boat races, which were held at the old Marine Stadium in Alamitos Bay, Long Beach. I had no idea at the time that some of the boats were Fiat 850-powered.


The PBS 8-Port head that I bought (as a lot) with the timing cover/pump/magneto & early FI assemblies is also an early "Series 1" type head, likely from the same batch as yours.

The head itself is currently stashed away in storage, but I did manage to remember to take some photos of the timing covers, pumps, magneto & various prototype fuel injection manifolds. No injectors were included, but a fuel distribution hub (central fitting & 4 hoses) was still in the box. The magneto was converted from an old outboard engine. This fits into the upper hole on the timing cover, & gets driven via a toothed fitting that goes over the 850 camshaft end bolt & engages a small gear which, in turn, drives a gear on the magneto shaft.

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To be continued...

Wow! Interesting wholesale lot. I suggest you contact Michael Feyl in Germany as he now runs the Scuderia Topolino brand. I'm sure he'd be very interested in your magneto for his car. I traded the FI I had for an OT1000 replica sump, A112 distributor an coil platform and several other new items. My early PBS head had the water outlet located above the timing cover.

 

[ramona300]

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The first set of intake manifolds has very short runners, with what look like motorcycle-type throttle bodies mounted on top of them.

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The second set has slightly longer 2-section runners that bolt together at a central mounting flange, with butterflies & some crude linkage in the center. You'll notice that one of the upper sections is slightly taller than the other, this is because it hasn't (yet) had the runners cut to length & welded together at its base plate.

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The third set has long 1-piece runners that look like raw castings with minor machining work done here & there. These were mounted on the cylinder head when I bought it.

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Jeff could you please measure the third set for length, flange to flange? I have made a set already which are limited by the room I have but I'm curious to what the ideal length would be.

 

[Jeff Stich]

Jeff could you please measure the third set for length, flange to flange? I have made a set already which are limited by the room I have but I'm curious to what the ideal length would be.

I'll measure them next time I'm over at my workshop, likely some time this weekend.